Would you dive with someone who wouldn't share air if you were OOA?

[seaducer]

Stevead said it better than I ever could...

 

[Kingpatzer]

Kingpatzer: With regard to not endangering additional lives and resources in a rescue operation, the human race in general and the US military in particular have a Proud Tradition of doing just that. The best publicized such event being the "Blackhawk Down" incident, where the better part of a battalion was sent out to recover the crew of a single helicopter and took additional casualties in the process, but they upheld the creed of No One Gets Left Behind.

Talking about diminishing the Coast Guards air rescue capability is just ridiculous. That capabilty does not exist to sit on the pad and "be available". The capability exists so that it can be used to save lives.

I'm very aware of the decission making that went into the incident you reference. I know a few of the people involved very well.

When the decission was made to go get those folks, a significant part of the consideration was if there was enough force being sent to ensure the objective was met and that we weren't creating casaulities just to create casualities.

Further, it wasn't a mere "rescue mission," it was a significant battle for control of Mogadishu, and it even goes by that name. The 10th Mountain did a great job and deserves the unit citation they recieved for that event.

And yes, the CG air rescue capability exists to be used. But to use it unnecessarily due to poor decission making is a significant reason for some of the "rules" that are taught in rescue classes.

 

[Al Mialkovsky]

I just wanna dive with my wife, she breathes better than me and isn't needy

 

[SteveAD]

Somebody commented a while back that PBs posts had been deleted from this thread. All of his posts have been deleted from the whole board. I think either his feelings were hurt, or he was IDd as a troll and banished.

 

[seaducer]

Somebody commented a while back that PBs posts had been deleted from this thread. All of his posts have been deleted from the whole board. I think either his feelings were hurt, or he was IDd as a troll and banished.

Well, his posts did have that inflammatory nature and disjointed! writing and punctuation style that most trolls I have seen demonstrate. I wonder if there is a school for that somewhere online?

 

[TSandM]

Bob, I wholeheartedly agree with your post. I may disagree intensely with other writers on this and other boards, but I "defend to the death" their right to hold views which disagree with mine.

The way I approach diving involves a whole host of assumptions, the most basic of which is that the deepest purpose of each teammate is to stand ready to assist the others. Our whole system is designed that way, to minimize the NEED for assistance, but to maximize the ease with which it can be rendered. But I have read many posts from people whose diving environment is different from mine, and they have had to proceed from different assumptions. If you travel widely by yourself, and get on boats and dive with strangers, you can't ASSUME you have a strong team or even an assistance ethos. One of the contributors to this thread has shown us that quite vividly. When your assumptions have to be different, your solutions will be different, too.

I don't think those solutions are wrong. I just think they are solving a different problem. In my diving world, certain problems were dealt with by the choices of equipment and the training of the divers, so we can start from a common baseline in where to go from there. I honestly believe that what PB was trying to say is that his FIRST imperative is not to become a victim; since he has no knowledge of and no confidence in the coping skills of his companions underwater, self-protection looms large in his mind. He qualifies the assistance he is willing to offer by saying he will only do it if it is safe for himself. In my world, the person in distress is unlikely to be there because of bad planning or bad execution, and one hopes he is trained well enough to accept assisance in a constructive way. I can see where too many experiences with people who put others at risk through bad planning or bad execution, and who turn out to be incapable of executing simple safety skills when they are necessary, might make you back off and think of yourself first, and the distressed diver second.

I hope I never get there.

 

[do it easy]

I hope I never get there.

How does that saying go? I'll get bent for you, but I won't die for you.

I hope I never get there either.

 

[Gombessa]

I think the last few posts probably summarized PB's intentions accurately enough. I just find it somewhat amusing that the discussion has taken a much more measured and reasoned tone AFTER PB stopped posting.

I don't think he was trying to troll, but I can honestly say that the way he presented himself and talked to people did not make it easier to understand his position.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I think the last few posts probably summarized PB's intentions accurately enough. I just find it somewhat amusing that the discussion has taken a much more measured and reasoned tone AFTER PB stopped posting.

I don't think he was trying to troll, but I can honestly say that the way he presented himself and talked to people did not make it easier to understand his position.

Antagonizing people and calling them names rarely helps anyone make a point ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[crpntr133]

I voted yes for basically the same reasoning. When I'm diving with people I still consider that I am on my own. I may indicate a need to share air if for some reason I am the OOA diver. If I get the air share fine, if not then its time to head up. Not every person one dives with will be comfortable or even skilled at sharing air. This may lead to a refusal or a further escalation of problems now involving two divers instead of one.

Jim, the next dive we are on together your own your own. I remember something in my rescue class about not having any obligation to bailing anyones butt out. I do agree that everyone should be a responsible diver but at 100' CESA isn't the best option when a buddy has plenty of air.

I actually had a BD in a group of three tell me, once we were in the water, that if something happened we were on our own. Didn't really make a difference since there was someone else there.
I even scratched a full day of diving because he was the only one left at the quarry. I would go as far as to say that he is a stroke or at least close to it.