Woman drowns during training - Hidden Paradise Campground, Indiana

[SlugLife]

Based on the details I've skimmed from this thread and the lawsuit .... there are a lot of missing pieces and poor descriptions. It's also possible I skipped over an important comment. I'm very hesitant to speculate what did happen, because I feel there are big parts of the story, which people do know, but aren't telling.

• What was the exact order and timeline of events?
• Was the BCD switched in or out of the water?
• How much weight was in the BCD?
• Why were the actions described neglectful?
• What does SDI, the quarry, and everyone else have to do with the lawsuit?
• Why couldn't she ascend?
• Who witnessed what?
• Were other people in the water?

Here's my current temporary conclusions, based on available lack-of-info:

• When lawsuits are vague and missing important pieces, I start to get real skeptical very quick.
• The shop appears to have done a lot of shady things in the past.
• If there is any liability, it would be limited to the shop or instructor, and everything else is frivolous.

Then from an accident-prevention scenario, the descriptions we have are somewhat useless for understanding what happened and why, therefore not that useful for suggesting prevention mechanisms.

 

[Outbound]

Perhaps you should go back and re-read, or perhaps read, the facts of the incident, then you might want to modify your post.

Biotech Diver mentioned her being in a drysuit. I didn't see any mention of her being in a drysuit and unable to inflate to stave off squeeze, so forgive me if that is an established fact. But, she was found in 18' of water. That's not deep enough to create a tight enough squeeze that would immobilize a diver. Uncomfortable? Yes. Immobilizing? No way. And please don't tell me it is because many drysuit divers have at one point or another had an issue with the inflator valve or has forgotten to attach the hose and has taken a squeeze at that depth or greater and has not been immobilized by it. I once dove with a guy in 34 degree water who took a squeeze the entire time because his rental drysuit had a sticky inflator valve that would over-inflate and he didn't want to deal with the buoyancy issues (I didn't find out about his valve issues until after we ascended). We didn't descend too far, but hit at least 35' as I recall. And just last week my buddy forgot to attach his hose and signaled for me to hold up (at about 25' depth) right after we descended while he reattached it. He was not immobilized.

If there are other facts that you know of but I somehow missed, by all means please share them. One of the main questions I have is did the instructor perform a search for her. Because if she was truly immobilized and couldn't reach her BCD inflator and could not ditch her weights or her rig, then she was stuck in place at the bottom with a regulator in her mouth and blowing a nice trail of bubbles straight up to the surface. It should have been relatively easy for the instructor to find her, even if he had to grasp around a bit through the silt she presumably kicked up.

 

[Biotech Diver]

Biotech Diver mentioned her being in a drysuit. I didn't see any mention of her being in a drysuit and unable to inflate to stave off squeeze, so forgive me if that is an established fact. But, she was found in 18' of water. That's not deep enough to create a tight enough squeeze that would immobilize a diver. Uncomfortable? Yes. Immobilizing? No way. And please don't tell me it is because many drysuit divers have at one point or another had an issue with the inflator valve or has forgotten to attach the hose and has taken a squeeze at that depth or greater and has not been immobilized by it. I once dove with a guy in 34 degree water who took a squeeze the entire time because his rental drysuit had a sticky inflator valve that would over-inflate and he didn't want to deal with the buoyancy issues (I didn't find out about his valve issues until after we ascended). We didn't descend too far, but hit at least 35' as I recall. And just last week my buddy forgot to attach his hose and signaled for me to hold up (at about 25' depth) right after we descended while he reattached it. He was not immobilized.

If there are other facts that you know of but I somehow missed, by all means please share them. One of the main questions I have is did the instructor perform a search for her. Because if she was truly immobilized and couldn't reach her BCD inflator and could not ditch her weights or her rig, then she was stuck in place at the bottom with a regulator in her mouth and blowing a nice trail of bubbles straight up to the surface. It should have been relatively easy for the instructor to find her, even if he had to grasp around a bit through the silt she presumably kicked up.

I deleted my post because I mistakenly thought this was the thread where the woman died in a Montana lake. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[Bob DBF]

If there are other facts that you know of but I somehow missed...

Deleted

 

[dfcliff]

It was her first time in a drysuit, I believe she was expecting proper instruction.

Different accident. There's some confusion on which incident this thread is discussing.

 

[Biotech Diver]

Different accident. There's some confusion on which incident this thread is discussing.

Yes, what threw me off was when Outboound made the comment about the cinder block and keeping the regulator mouthpiece in. I mistakenly assumed it was the Montana incident thread.

 

[Outbound]

Ok, my apologies for contributing to the confusion.

 

[Jack Hammer]

Biotech Diver mentioned her being in a drysuit. I didn't see any mention of her being in a drysuit and unable to inflate to stave off squeeze, so forgive me if that is an established fact. But, she was found in 18' of water. That's not deep enough to create a tight enough squeeze that would immobilize a diver. Uncomfortable? Yes. Immobilizing? No way. And please don't tell me it is because many drysuit divers have at one point or another had an issue with the inflator valve or has forgotten to attach the hose and has taken a squeeze at that depth or greater and has not been immobilized by it. I once dove with a guy in 34 degree water who took a squeeze the entire time because his rental drysuit had a sticky inflator valve that would over-inflate and he didn't want to deal with the buoyancy issues (I didn't find out about his valve issues until after we ascended). We didn't descend too far, but hit at least 35' as I recall. And just last week my buddy forgot to attach his hose and signaled for me to hold up (at about 25' depth) right after we descended while he reattached it. He was not immobilized.

If there are other facts that you know of but I somehow missed, by all means please share them. One of the main questions I have is did the instructor perform a search for her. Because if she was truly immobilized and couldn't reach her BCD inflator and could not ditch her weights or her rig, then she was stuck in place at the bottom with a regulator in her mouth and blowing a nice trail of bubbles straight up to the surface. It should have been relatively easy for the instructor to find her, even if he had to grasp around a bit through the silt she presumably kicked up.

The thicker the undergarments are the more restrictive the squeeze tends to be. Also, overall fit of both the Undergarment and the drysuit come into play and can make a big difference in ability to move when squeezed. Not all people experience the same discomfort and immobilization at the same depths

 

[lowwall]

This fatality had nothing to do with drysuits. That is an entirely different accident and thread. If you are looking for that thread, it's at Suit filed in case of "Girl dead, boy injured at Glacier National Park

This thread is about a woman who died in a quarry in Indiana during her OW course. We have very few details about the causes of the fatal accident, so much of the discussion has been on issues related to the civil lawsuits filed by the victim's family and the shop's insurer.

 

[Stanio1981]

Without wanting to give too much detail out of respect for the family, this case was heard by a Grand Jury yesterday.

I suspect they are looking for Reckless Homicide.