Woman drowns during training - Hidden Paradise Campground, Indiana

[Divin'Papaw]

perhaps this is a stupid question but i do not understand why DAN is suing ?

This is a pure guess since I don't want to pay to read the filing, but what would make sense is that Bottoms Up had a current insurance policy through DAN. However when DAN got pulled in on this case, they went through Bottoms Up's insurance application and found the alleged lie. So now they are asking the court to either make a legal determination that the insurance contact was invalid from the start or they are asking the court for a ruling that Bottoms Up must repay DAN for anything it has to pay out to cover claims arising while the policy was in effect.

Here you go. Lots of very interesting tidbits.

 

[lowwall]

Here you go. Lots of very interesting tidbits.

Thank you. It's as I expected. DAN is asking the court to declare that the insurance contracts were invalid for any of several reasons.

The reasons differ between the parties, but the main one is that the shop's owners didn't disclose on their applications that they, both individually and the shop, had been expelled by PADI for allegedly forging physician signatures on PADI medical forms.

Also the instructor for the fatal lesson was not listed as an additional insured under the shop policy and didn't have his own policy from DAN. He could have had one from someone else, but his absence on the original complaint suggests he didn't.

 

[boulderjohn]

Also the instructor for the fatal lesson was not listed as an additional insured under the shop policy and didn't have his own policy from DAN. He could have had one from someone else, but his absence on the original complaint suggests he didn't.

Which is curious, since he is listed on the website as a Course Director and shop manager.
https://www.bottomsupscuba.com/about-us

The home page here says their courses are from IANTD, which is not what I found in other places. Under their list of courses offered, they do not ever mention the certifying agency.
https://www.bottomsupscuba.com/

 

[rick00001967]

Thank you. It's as I expected. DAN is asking the court to declare that the insurance contracts were invalid for any of several reasons.

The reasons differ between the parties, but the main one is that the shop's owners didn't disclose on their applications that they, both individually and the shop, had been expelled by PADI for allegedly forging physician signatures on PADI medical forms.

Also the instructor for the fatal lesson was not listed as an additional insured under the shop policy and didn't have his own policy from DAN. He could have had one from someone else, but his absence on the original complaint suggests he didn't.

all understood. but you can only sue someone for monetary damages. so did DAN ever pay any claims for bottoms up that they should not have to have paid ? if so, they could obviously sue for that. but i guess i was assuming that since this case is on going that no one has paid anything out yet.

 

[Biotech Diver]

I am a fairly big guy myself, and I have done a lot of drysuit dives. (I have not, however, done a lot of single AL 80 tank drysuit dives.) When I am diving with double steel Worthington tanks and an aluminum backplate with my drysuit in freshwater, I use no extra weight whatsoever. (I don't use a steel backplate because it is too much weight.) When I have dived with single Worthington LP 85s and a steel backplate, I don't use much weight (I would have to look it up--just a handful of pounds.) Years ago, when I dived with a ScubaPro back inflate BCD, a drysuit, and an AL 80 tank in freshwater, I used 16 pounds.

In other words, I am amazed that someone needs 38+ pounds, so that may be why I was assuming speculation was involved.

I only needed 20 lbs when I dove with a dry suit, but I only weigh 165 lbs. Can’t imagine needing 38 lbs unless you’re Shaq! LOL!

 

[Whitrzac]

I dove ~32lbs when using a 2pc 7mm, thick hood, normal BC, etc. Now with a BP/W setup and drysuit I use 10lbs. I'm 5 11 and ~200lbs. Not a big guy by any means.
That much weight isn't uncommon when using thick wetsuits. There's a lot of neoprene that adds buoyancy.

 

[lowwall]

all understood. but you can only sue someone for monetary damages. so did DAN ever pay any claims for bottoms up that they should not have to have paid ? if so, they could obviously sue for that. but i guess i was assuming that since this case is on going that no one has paid anything out yet.

Not sure where you got that. You can ask a court to grant all kinds of stuff other than monetary damages. The most famous are injunctions, where someone asks a court to order some entity to stop doing something (or even to do something, but that is much more rare). This is a request for a different type of non-monetary decision called a "declaratory judgement." A declaratory judgement is when a court issues a ruling to clarify a legal question. There are of course rules about when a court will accept such cases. the most important is that they be related to an actual, rather than theoretical, issue.

There is clearly an actual issue here since an underlying suit has been filed. The legal questions revolve around whether DAN had valid coverage of anyone affiliated with Bottoms Up at the time of the fatal incident.

 

[rick00001967]

Not sure where you got that. You can ask a court to grant all kinds of stuff other than monetary damages. The most famous are injunctions, where someone asks a court to order some entity to stop doing something (or even to do something, but that is much more rare). This is a request for a different type of non-monetary decision called a "declaratory judgement." A declaratory judgement is when a court issues a ruling to clarify a legal question. There are of course rules about when a court will accept such cases. the most important is that they be related to an actual, rather than theoretical, issue.

There is clearly an actual issue here since an underlying suit has been filed. The legal questions revolve around whether DAN had valid coverage of anyone affiliated with Bottoms Up at the time of the fatal incident.

understood.
i guess it is just the language that was throwing me off. typically when the average person hears someone is "suing" someone else, it means they are taking them to civil court to try and recover monetary damages.
obviously courts issue many different types of orders for various reasons. i just have never heard any of those other reasons described as "suing".

 

[jr511]

DAN is asking the court to.declare that it’s policy wasn’t in effect at the time this poor Lady’s death due to material misrepresentation. Typically, DAN still has to defend the underlying lawsuit while the declaratory lawsuit is pending. DAN is just trying to save itself millions from a judgment— that is all.

 

[whippo]

As they should....