Why WOULDN'T you use backup gauges with an AI computer?

[NudeDiver]

Learn how to dive instead of depending on a piece of equipment. My dive computers are a convenience to me and not a hindrance.

Well, let's see....seems to me you're pretty dependent on all kinds of gear - beginning with a tank and regulator set. Don't see too many people diving without fins either. Silly bastards should just learn how to kick!

But of course - the AI users just need to learn how to dive. Naturally.

 

[NudeDiver]

If your boat diving for 30 min at a time on the California coast in 30ft you just dont need a ton of gear.

If I'm only getting 30 minute, 30 feet dives off a boat, I'm going to find a new dive boat operator.

Another reason why a backup gauge is good to have is when your diving with Novice divers and you ask them how much air they have left. I pick up my guage and point to it and they can understand what I am asking. If I point to my computer they give me all sorts of strange signs like its lunch time, time for a beer, their watch is a casio etc etc

Hm...I would have thought this could be prevented by some very basic pre-dive buddy communication concerning signals and such - but I guess not.

My AI computer has never failed. It has failed to get a couple of responses during a dive, but I noticed that upon reviewing the download, not during the dive.

I had a hosed AI computer fail once. But when it failed, it continued to give me air pressure - it just had no idea what depth I was at, or even that I was at depth at all. Of course, if I had an analog pressure gauge that failed - well, then I would have NO air pressure reading. That would kinda suck. As least if your depth meter (whichever you use) fails, your buddy's depth meter can tell you where you are, but his pressure meter (whichever he uses) is highly unlikely to tell you the pressure in your own tank.

 

[thanksforallthefish]

To tell the truth I don't see the necessity to have a spg as a backup if you are using a computer. I have always used an AI console and had a number of computers fail (amazingly all the same brand) but only one failed underwater.

If your computer fails then you should abort the dive and should have been monitoring your air and NDL often enough to be able to complete any deco stops required (of course here I am talking about rec diving where you are not supposed to do deco dives anyway, but people do)

 

[newman_diver]

You don't have anything. You don't even need an SPG. Old timers dove with the J-valves that when the tank runs empty, they hit the handlebar and the J-valve activates the reserve which is approximately 500-psi. Or they listen to the echo in their tanks (a trick that an old timer taught me).

True, but there were also a lot more accidents and fatalities in the early days of diving.

But we weren't just talking about console air integrated dive computers. We were talking about HOSELESS air integrated dive computers as well.

And I don't understanding this "assuming the risk of air pressure" if I don't dive with a backup SPG.

You assume the risk of losing your pressure readout. You would assume the risk with an spg as well but it is proven to be far more reliable than AI or hoseless.

Your dive computer screws up, you abort the dive and surface. End of story. What's the big concern? You're suppose to be diving NDL anyway (says who?). And if you were to do a safety stop and ran out of air, then surface. What's the big concern? Don't SPGs also fail? (not as much as AI or hoseless) And what do you do when they fail? Do you do anything differently when an SPG fails versus a dive computer fails? No

Learn how to dive instead of depending on a piece of equipment. My dive computers are a convenience to me and not a hindrance.

I don't think this comment has any relevance to the issue.

If we are going to sidetrack the original question we should start a new thread or continue this debate in another venue (PM).

Tyler

 

[Thalassamania]

Making fun of backup gauges, say equating them to a big pig sticker, that's a terrible attitude that does not promote safe diving.

I think he was being facetious

... Your dive computer screws up, you abort the dive and surface. End of story.

Actually I switch back to time and depth and US Navy NDL for the deepest point in my dive, why thumb it?

 

[asimpkinsjr]

While Im new to diving, Im a 15yr veteran of IT and its associated technologies...as to wireless....if I was to ever consider an AI DC it would have to have a backup....Ive simply seen first hand too many very odd failures in wireless technologies to trust it at depth without a backup...everything from firmware failures to signal attenuation in places where there should not be any. Part of my job has typically involved measuring and watching signal strengths to assess stability of wireless deployments and Ive done enough of these to have seen on multiple occasions, dramatic changes in signal strength despite no change in position or distance of transmitter and receiver.

My advice...wireless is a nice convenience, but Id never bet my life on it....use a backup, lesson I learned in the navy, while in submarines...when your analog gauges crap out, the poo poo has hit the proverbial fan anyway

 

[FishOutUvH2O]

A compact depth/pressure console costs about $100, and it is completely out of the way if you clip it off right. Why wouldn't you have one?

I wouldn't/don't because I have no open HP port for a analog SPG. One port has my transmitter and the other port has a transmitter for my wife's computer. If my transmitter fails, I look at her computer for my air/gas pressure for the rest of the dive (which will last as long as it takes to safely return to the surface). I do carry both a spare transmitter and a SPG in my save-a-dive, just in case.

On a side note: I do enjoy this topic. It usually includes a lot of "those wireless AI transmitters scare me because they can fail. . ." posts. But somehow we forget that SPGs can and do fail. Anyone who certified with PADI should already know this. Since you were taught to turn the gauge face away from you when turning on the tank, just in case the gauge goes boom. Whether it's new technology or old technology makes no difference, it's technology and it has the ability to fail. And according to Murphy's Law, it's going to happen at the most inopportune time. Plan for it.

 

[Matt S.]

I wouldn't/don't because I have no open HP port for a analog SPG. One port has my transmitter and the other port has a transmitter for my wife's computer. If my transmitter fails, I look at her computer for my air/gas pressure for the rest of the dive (which will last as long as it takes to safely return to the surface).

I think that is also a reasonable approach.

I just can't be comfortable with the idea of being at depth with no* idea of what my air is, eve if it's unlikely. I am surprised at how many people are willing to tolerate that.

* Yes, I'll know about what my pressure is when I notice a failed instrument, and I know about what my rate of consumption is, but I'll still feel better with a real number to refer to on my way up...

 

[RonFrank]

I dive with a backup computer. If my primary computer dies, I don't abort anything, I switch to my backup computer, and my SPG assuming I have one. I generally have redundant pressure, and computers.

Posters can poo-poo backup equipment all they want. I have this equipment, and don't want to abort a dive due to what I consider minor equipment failure. I paid $55 for the SPG, and my Aeries Atmos II was my primary at one point. Now I have a backup SPG, and a backup computer, and for what I pay to dive, IMO these *minor* expenses are well worth it.

If I'm diving locally, well, who gives a damn! I rarely go below 50', and could easily dive my equipment blind with just a timer. The water temp tells me if I go too deep, or we are diving spots where 35'~40' is about as deep as one goes.

 

[thanksforallthefish]

If I'm diving locally, well, who gives a damn! I rarely go below 50', and could easily dive my equipment blind with just a timer. The water temp tells me if I go too deep, or we are diving spots where 35'~40' is about as deep as one goes.

I had assumed that this was what was meant, just your normal every day diving.

If you were diving on a trip away or doing something out of the ordinary then having a backup is a sensible thing to do.