Why the Prejudice about DIR or GUE

[mdb]

wow, this discussion is still going on?

No surprise. The next one will start in a few days, the same folks, the same posts etc.

 

[Adobo]

wow, this discussion is still going on?

This isn't really a new discussion. It's the same discussion that's been going on for years. It just got continued on this thread. Still entertaining though. It's kind of like watching MASH reruns over and over again.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

This isn't really a new discussion. It's the same discussion that's been going on for years. It just got continued on this thread. Still entertaining though. It's kind of like watching MASH reruns over and over again.

Good analogy ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[TheRedHead]

It's the late MASH cast, doesn't have the edge of the early crew....

 

[Pathfinder]

I like M*A*S*H*.......The early crew

Dave

 

[Bigcape]

.................and look at the system for what it is, not for the minority of zealots who use words like "stroke".

I havent found what "stroke" means yet ??


BTW: I had NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO idea what I started here. This tread has covered more than I think i could have gotten from jumping from thread to thread.

 

[jeraldjcook]

Let's take these realistic scenarios and compare them:

Scenario 1: Diver with octo in the triangle
You tested your octo on the surface. Ok, it supplies air. Now, 30 minutes into the dive your buddy comes up to you out of gas and does what he's supposed to do and takes the octo, which actually managed to stay in the octo keeper and has not been dragging along as most that I see normally are. I'll ignore for now that the octopus is not placed in a convenient location for a diver maintaining a horizontal position. Diver gets the reg and breathes off of it and gets nothing but water because the diaphragm is ripped. It worked fine on the surface when you tested it, but underwater it doesn't. Now your bad situation just got a *lot* worse

Scenario 2: Diver with octo in the triangle
Same scenario is before (tested on surface), only this time it fell out of the octo keeper and is dragging along below you, collecting debris. OOG diver comes up to you, manages to find the octopus 3 feet below you, takes a breath and gets a chunk of crap (mud, coral, plant) shot down his throat when he purges it. OOG diver chokes and panics.

Scenario 3: Diver with octo in the triangle
OOG diver panics when he runs out of gas and rips the regulator out of your mouth. You fumble around looking for your octo, find it, and it the diaphragm is ripped. Worked fine on the surface. Now you have two paniced divers...

Scenario 4: Diver with bungeed backup
Both regs are tested on the surface. As soon as you get below the water, an S-drill is performed where you fully deploy the long hose and switch to the back up. Both regs work both above water and below (or they don't and you abort). OOG diver comes up to you and mugs you for your long hose. You donate and switch to your backup around your neck (I almost always can find my own neck, even with my eyes closed ). The donated reg works because, heck, you were *just* breathing it. Your backup reg works because you tested it both on the surface and underwater and it's been up against your neck so it is *really* unlikely that it got any debris. If the OOG diver is panicking, you get ahold of them (preferably from behind them). If they are ok, you are free to swim to your exit point (direct ascents are rarely a good idea in most places), ascend, and laugh about the experience over a beer when you get back to shore.

I think these scenarios are a good example of why some people think DIR are up on their high horse, pontificating to non-DIR divers. Here are 3 examples of non-DIR divers who are doing everything wrong, and these are used as typical examples while the DIR example follows textbook procedures. There isn’t a single diving organization out there that would train someone to behave like the divers in 1-2. In the third example, apparently non-DIR divers can experience a ripped diaphragm by entering the water. What? Who has ever heard of such a thing. If the octo works right before you jump in, it’s going to work when you check it right after you jump in. And if you can rip a diaphragm during the dive, both are going to experience it. In my view, checking the octo before is just as good as after, and that is how other agencies train. If you have a problem with how the other agencies train, say so. Don’t say “See how stupid, irresponsible divers acting completely contrary to how they were trained by PADI act. Now compare that to our perfect model of our guys doing everything right.” You’re not comparing apples to apples. Compare best practices to best practices and it might be different.

 

[TheRedHead]

Does PADI or any other agency teach divers to breathe the octo in the water or to practice air donation on every dive?

 

[uspap]

I have a question about the long hose. (the one used for scuba) I have tried to swim with someone with the short hose in a non emergency situation. It was difficult. I can see the advantage to the longer hose in my case. Someone posted it would be dangerouse to dive the 7' without proper training. Is that training available without going through a DIR class? Also can a non DIR guy post in the DIR forum and ask questions or for clarification or is that not reccommended. I'm new here sorry.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I think these scenarios are a good example of why some people think DIR are up on their high horse, pontificating to non-DIR divers. Here are 3 examples of non-DIR divers who are doing everything wrong, and these are used as typical examples while the DIR example follows textbook procedures. There isn’t a single diving organization out there that would train someone to behave like the divers in 1-2. In the third example, apparently non-DIR divers can experience a ripped diaphragm by entering the water. What? Who has ever heard of such a thing. If the octo works right before you jump in, it’s going to work when you check it right after you jump in. And if you can rip a diaphragm during the dive, both are going to experience it. In my view, checking the octo before is just as good as after, and that is how other agencies train. If you have a problem with how the other agencies train, say so. Don’t say “See how stupid, irresponsible divers acting completely contrary to how they were trained by PADI act. Now compare that to our perfect model of our guys doing everything right.” You’re not comparing apples to apples. Compare best practices to best practices and it might be different.

Hate to say it, but I see divers ... and even dive instructors ... dragging octos all the time. Worse, I see them stuffing octos in BCD pockets, where they're not visible. Still worse, I know a dive instructor who uses a bolt snap to clip his octo to his chest D-ring.

These are not recommended practices ... not by any agency that I know of ... but they are examples of how some people dive. Had a class pass me in the water just the other day ... and not a single one of them (including the instructor) had their octo in the golden triangle. They were all dangling ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)