Why the Prejudice about DIR or GUE

[H2Andy]

That's the funniest thing I've read all day. :lol: :lol:

well, you weren't one of the two divers

 

[Soggy]

Scenario 5: PADI diver is vertical and silting out the visibility. Diver is OOA and reaches reaches for huge and bright yellow R190 right where is should be located. Breathes from octo just fine. Just then, a Navy destory drops a depth charge and kills both divers.

Was that before or after the hedgehogs were deployed?

I think your right, the PADI setup can never work. I wonder why we don't hear more about the 1000's of deaths each year? Probably media bias and PADI's influence.

People don't run out of gas very often, recreational diving is often fairly forgiving of fast ascents, and Murphy can't be everywhere at once.

 

[Meng_Tze]

Let's take these realistic scenarios and compare them:



Scenario 4: Diver with bungeed backup
Both regs are tested on the surface. As soon as you get below the water, an S-drill is performed where you fully deploy the long hose and switch to the back up. Both regs work both above water and below (or they don't and you abort). OOG diver comes up to you and mugs you for your long hose. You donate and switch to your backup around your neck (I almost always can find my own neck, even with my eyes closed ). The donated reg works because, heck, you were *just* breathing it. Your backup reg works because you tested it both on the surface and underwater and it's been up against your neck so it is *really* unlikely that it got any debris. If the OOG diver is panicking, you get ahold of them (preferably from behind them). If they are ok, you are free to swim to your exit point (direct ascents are rarely a good idea in most places), ascend, and laugh about the experience over a beer when you get back to shore.

Sounds like a pretty well thought out plan to me....uh....wait....isnt that what DIR is about? Standard -simplistic config- equipment, well thought out procedures and rehearsed so that in case of emergency, it is second nature? Hmmmm, maybe they do have a point (being sarcastic here).

And yes I am DIR (and then some), proud of it, but try not to ram it down people's throats... which leads to the original question...

(I couldn't resist in answering since Soggy makes this eloquent example)

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Bob do you think George Carlin could use some of this as material for his next HBO show?

I love Carlin ... wish I had half of his wit and a tenth of his bank account ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[boulderjohn]

Let's take these realistic scenarios and compare them:

Scenario 1: Diver with octo in the triangle
You tested your octo on the surface. Ok, it supplies air. Now, 30 minutes into the dive your buddy comes up to you out of gas and does what he's supposed to do and takes the octo, which actually managed to stay in the octo keeper and has not been dragging along as most that I see normally are. I'll ignore for now that the octopus is not placed in a convenient location for a diver maintaining a horizontal position. Diver gets the reg and breathes off of it and gets nothing but water because the diaphragm is ripped. It worked fine on the surface when you tested it, but underwater it doesn't. Now your bad situation just got a *lot* worse

Scenario 2: Diver with octo in the triangle
Same scenario is before (tested on surface), only this time it fell out of the octo keeper and is dragging along below you, collecting debris. OOG diver comes up to you, manages to find the octopus 3 feet below you, takes a breath and gets a chunk of crap (mud, coral, plant) shot down his throat when he purges it. OOG diver chokes and panics.

Scenario 3: Diver with octo in the triangle
OOG diver panics when he runs out of gas and rips the regulator out of your mouth. You fumble around looking for your octo, find it, and it the diaphragm is ripped. Worked fine on the surface. Now you have two paniced divers...

Scenario 4: Diver with bungeed backup
Both regs are tested on the surface. As soon as you get below the water, an S-drill is performed where you fully deploy the long hose and switch to the back up. Both regs work both above water and below (or they don't and you abort). OOG diver comes up to you and mugs you for your long hose. You donate and switch to your backup around your neck (I almost always can find my own neck, even with my eyes closed ). The donated reg works because, heck, you were *just* breathing it. Your backup reg works because you tested it both on the surface and underwater and it's been up against your neck so it is *really* unlikely that it got any debris. If the OOG diver is panicking, you get ahold of them (preferably from behind them). If they are ok, you are free to swim to your exit point (direct ascents are rarely a good idea in most places), ascend, and laugh about the experience over a beer when you get back to shore.

Um--trying to get the moral of the story.

Isn't it "test your alternate under water"?

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

NWGreatfulDiver,
I already enrolled for rescue for the beginning of Oct and looking forward to it. Also, I thought by their very nature dump valve are designed to dump air faster than they can be filled. In August's Scuba Diving magazine all 14 BC were able to dump faster than they could be filled by using either shoulder valve one at a time.

Not if you're ascending while you're filling ... which would fit the scenario you've described. For that matter, if a BCD is already partly filled, a rapid ascent will sometimes make it impossible to dump air faster than it will be displaced simply through the expansion of what's already in there. Remember the effects of Boyle's Law!

Equipment tests are typically done in a static environment (i.e. surface conditions), whereas real diving occurs in a dynamic one (i.e. pressure-induced changes).

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Soggy]

The point to take home about the long hose/bungeed backup is that it minimizes the possible problems & failures that can occur during an out of gas situation. With a golden-triangle octopus more things are left to chance. There are other advantages (like not having to be kissing your buddy on your swim back from the other end of the wreck), but that's the main point as I see it.

I'll agree that for your typical recreational diver in Cozumel, those advantages may not be so obvious since the environment is so forgiving, but what many of us refer to as recreational dives are very different than that.

 

[Meng_Tze]

Um--trying to get the moral of the story.

Isn't it "test your alternate under water"?

Amongst other things yes. Also, make sure you know where it is, that you can be fairly sure it doesnt change its function while diving, that you can deploy it quickly...

 

[Soggy]

Um--trying to get the moral of the story.

Isn't it "test your alternate under water"?

That is one moral. You missed all the rest of them:

Put your backup regulator where you can easily get to it

Put the regulator you donate where you don't have to fish for it. (Like my neck, I can almost always find my mouth).

put your regulators where they cannot be accidentally deployed and drag in the muck

put the regulator in a place where it is easily accessible from a horizontal position (i.e. your mouth)

use gear and procedures that are consistent and work in all environments so you don't ever have to ask yourself, "what regulator do I donate today?" and don't have to relearn something when you want to move forward in your diving.

Make sure that, when you test your 2nd regulator that it can be restowed the way it is meant to be stowed. I've yet to see someone who can easily get their octo back in that stupid octo-holder thingy underwater with gloves on without help.

 

[TheRedHead]

I'll agree that for your typical recreational diver in Cozumel, those advantages may not be so obvious since the environment is so forgiving, but what many of us refer to as recreational dives are very different than that.

I always dive with a long hose in Cozumel. What is someone goes OOA in Devil's Throat?