Why Rebreathers?

[PacketSniffer]

Most people are just not going to understand......until they educate themselves and start diving a rebreather. Then, it will click. Most stand from afar and are afraid of them. They hear all the bad things typically without thoroughly checking the facts. The fact is that a CCR is a extremely powerful tool. Some very outrageous and memorable diving can accomplished on one without a clock ticking over your head (most relevant in cave diving). One can actually *enjoy* the dives. You just can't get complacent on one.

Until the others understand, I, as well as some others, will be doing some bad-a$$ diving.

 

[jepuskar]

But do you consider CCR safer than OC...generally speaking?

 

[PacketSniffer]

But do you consider CCR safer than OC...generally speaking?

I don't believe the issue is black and white. It goes back to what I already posted. It *is* safer than OC for those that are trained well *and* qualified to run them. (Some people may be trained but I feel fall out of qualification due to various reasons.). Properly trained and fully aware of the capabilities of the unit, you are literally an escape artist under the water with a CCR. You have options.

 

[sunnyboy]

that is where i totally disagree

because if something can go wrong in two ways, whereas something else can go wrong in ten ways, the one that can go wrong in ten ways is riskier

rebreathers are more complex and thus have more potential ways to hurt you and are thus riskier

what is riskier, a life-support system with two possible failure points or a life-support system with ten possible failure points?

...

but please stop arguing that they are not riskier than a demand valve. of course they are. the very nature of the training and the extra vigilance and care needed to dive rebreathers safely are proof that they are riskier and need to be managed accordingly

true, but since scuba is more forgiving than a rebreather, the point is moot

(why? think about it ... rebreathers stress the weakest link more, and can break a weak link that scuba would not break -- which system puts more stress on the weakest link? rebreathers, of course)

Please stop pretending to do a risk analysis on rebreathers. Rather than providing clarity, you are merely stirring up clouds of silt. Number of possible failure points is only ONE component of a true risk analysis, and not necessarily a major component. There are dozens of additional factors that must be considered before risk can be properly assessed.

One thing seems clear... for YOU, the rebreather represents too great a risk. OK. So stick with OC. Problem solved. But please stop trying to convince everyone that you have the answer to what is "riskier".

Frankly, the "riskiest" part of a diver is the thing between the ears. It doesn't matter whether it's OC or RB; I suspect lack of proper training kills more divers (OC or RB) than any other single factor.

Cheers,

-S

 

[caveseeker7]

true, but since scuba is more forgiving than a rebreather, the point is moot

Not quite. Anything goes wrong on OC, you have but seconds to react.
Rebreathers give you time, quite a bit, actually. They give you options, even several.
And since they're build around OC, that is one of them, by design.
So you have the rebreather, with all it's option, plus the OC you consider so safe.

On top of which most RB divers I know also carry a redundant breathing system,
while I've met very few people on OC that take along a complete independent second
tank and demand valve.

Other than caustic cocktail, which danger is inherent to rebreathers that cannot occur
on OC? Hypercapnia? Wrong. Hyperoxia? Wrong. Hypoxia? Wrong. Unbreathable gas?
Wrong. Equipment failing? Wrong. All of it has happened on OC, and if you follow
accident reports, continues to happen on OC. So, in what ways can they kill that OC can't, again?

And like it or not, external dangers are as much part of diving as any other.
And time, more often than not, is all you need to survive.
A rebreather, if nothing else, gives you time.

 

[PacketSniffer]

And time, more often than not, is all you need to survive.
A rebreather, if nothing else, gives you time.

We keep telling him but he's not listening.

 

[jepuskar]

I'm in a unique position right now. I'm an OC diver, but understand how CCR's work and all of the emergency procedures, and risks involved. I plan on taking my CCR training this spring.

So while I don't have but pool experience on them, I am a proponent of rebreathers, but still an OC diver.

With that said, I think the current rebreather divers posting on this thread are doing an excellent job of trying to make others realize how rebreathers give you time etc...to deal with problems. Every disaster scenario has a bail-out option.

However, I think when debating risk etc...you can't categorize it as a whole. It is situation dependent. DrMike's lost in a wreck story is an example of when being on OC would be much riskier. However, when doing shallow reef diving to say 60ft I think a CCR is riskier.

The weakest part of a rebreather is the user. Because it is more complex and more to go wrong, there is greater possibility for the diver to make a wrong decision or worse yet..no decision at all.

To the rebreather divers: I hear what you're saying and I agree for the most part, but there is a reason why the training and equipment is more labor intensive than OC. Complacency kills...right? OC divers can get away with soo much more and live to tell about it. I think you'll agree that rebreather diving is not for everyone...and the main reason for that being....it IS in general...more riskier.

J

 

[caveseeker7]

I'd say it's not for everyone because it requires a lot of discipline.
Something even disciplined people rather not deal with in their spare time.

 

[jepuskar]

Why does it require alot of discipline?

 

[PacketSniffer]

However, when doing shallow reef diving to say 60ft I think a CCR is riskier.

I don't agree with that at all.

The weakest part of a rebreather is the user.

I agree with this 100%.

OC divers can get away with soo much more and live to tell about it.

I can get away with a lot on a CCR too. I can get trapped and overstay my run time by a couple hours and still get back unbent. I can run out of both onboard gases (diluent and O2) with no bailout and STILL make it back home (one absolute worst case and buddy required) after having lost the guideline for some time in a major siltout.

I think you'll agree that rebreather diving is not for everyone...and the main reason for that being....it IS in general...more riskier.

I will agree that is it not for everyone. Most don't require a RB to do their type of diving. But, I can't agree flat out that they are more risky than OC. A RB is both; more risky and more safe. It depends on who is diving it. To the trained and qualified, it is more safe. To the contrary will likely end in tragedy. The most important thing I need to do is analyze my gases, ensure the calibration of the O2 cells is within my diving range and not let myself go hypoxic. For me, that's pretty easy to do. Some of you are putting waaay too much danger into CCR diving. It's not THAT dangerous. Even when Tom failed to put his scrubber cannister in the unit, he still had time (same time as if you were breathing into a Walmart bag). How about if you fail to turn on your gas on OC? You get a very definitive amount of gas (like a few breaths) and then you're done. I can get out of a lot more jams on CCR than I can with OC. That's just one of the reasons why I dive one. Most of the cave accidents end with this line: "...and then the victim ran out of gas".