Why NOT to make DIR forum opt-in?

[Sloth]

So it seems like the consensus from DIR trained divers and those intersted in DIR is to make it opt-in. So how do we go about making it opt-in? Obviously the mods have the final say. How do we even get mods involved in this thread? Use the report button?

 

[Thalassamania]

If your neighbor's dog made a habit out of coming over to your yard to take a dump, would you think that's OK? .

Come on Bob, that dog won’t hunt, we’re talking about ideas, not even close.

"True-Believers". Huh, as though we are incapable of independent thought?

John, I don’t remember naming you, I wasn’t even honestly thinking of you. You’re a bit over sensitive in claiming a title that was never intended for you. I generally find you to be one of the saner people.

What I said was that as long as you have “true believers” you will always have acrimonious discussions. That is a truism, and it really doesn’t matter what the topic is.

This is exactly the type of material and attitude that has no place here. Thal you have no DIR training, you aren't looking to take DIR training, you continue to post non-DIR answers to other people's questions, and you post slights and digs against those of us who do have the training and experience to potentially make this a helpful place.

You would be one of the 90% I recommend for removal.

Look, you folks with all your alleged DIRness can't even decide what's DIR, what isn't and who's DIR and who's not. Until you can haul JJ in to officially declaim some of as UN-DIR and we stay within the TOS, you should try to find a way to co-exist.

If an idea, concept, procedure, etc. can’t stand up to scrutiny, examination and thoughtful critique or for that matter can't stand up even to sarcasm and ridicule, does it really deserve to live? Is life worth living on life support in a hot house environment where no one does anything but swap kool-aid flavored pablum. Please, pick up a gun and put it out of it's wining misery. When you succeed in reducing it to that, I'm sure we'll all leave.

Believe it our not, I fully support the GUE's concept that diver education in inadequate and find myself in about 90% agreement on what they do, more than I do with any other agency.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

So it seems like the consensus from DIR trained divers and those intersted in DIR is to make it opt-in. So how do we go about making it opt-in? Obviously the mods have the final say. How do we even get mods involved in this thread? Use the report button?

I'd be willing to bet that at least some of them have been monitoring this discussion ... and probably have been discussing among themselves what to do about it.

But, since NetDoc has always stated that if you have a problem you should feel free to contact him ... perhaps a PM to him would be a good place to start. Despite my occasional protestations, I've found him to be very reasonable to discuss things with ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Sloth]

Thanks Bob.

I was hoping TSandM would weigh in since she is staff and DIR so I might PM her first to get her thoughts.

I seem to recall she was opposed to opt-in for some reason though.

 

[John_B]

John, I don’t remember naming you, I wasn’t even honestly thinking of you. You’re a bit over sensitive in claiming a title that was never intended for you.

I guess that read that into your comment. Maybe its all the acrimony that makes us take comments personally?

I generally find you to be one of the saner people.

I just asked a co-worker for a second opinion, she said maybe you just don't know me well enough yet.

John

 

[Sloth]

If an idea, concept, procedure, etc. can’t stand up to scrutiny, examination and thoughtful critique or for that matter can't stand up even to sarcasm and ridicule, does it really deserve to live? Is life worth living on life support in a hot house environment where no one does anything but swap kool-aid flavored pablum. Please, pick up a gun and put it out of it's wining misery. When you succeed in reducing it to that, I'm sure we'll all leave.

I would like to have the option to post a simple question here without having to read through 20 pages of how DIR is the stupidest thing since pet rocks.

For instance, I am thinking about taking Cave 1 in Mexico at the end of this month but I am so fresh from fundies I have some hesitation. There is no way I am posting this question here in its current state because I know that a large chunk of the replies will be about going TDI or some other agenices or I will get well meaning but misguided responses from people that have gone through a cave class from a different agency.

 

[Doc Intrepid]

Sloth,

Everything is on the table. We're listening.

Nothing has been ruled out.

Software/structural changes must be approved by management.

We'll likely go forward with a preliminary proposal to management by the end of the week.

Everyone is aware of the situation, and would like the forum to be a place that is useful to those who would like to participate. Actually, that includes both pro- as well as thoughtful skeptic positions.

More than once in this thread it has been stated by different divers that it isn't a well-articulated argument/discussion that is a problem, so much as it is the deliberate antagonism and belligerent hostility that simply disrupts dialog.

Plus.....

You may be too young to remember the hoopla surrounding the roll-out of "New Coke" around 1985...(which quietly turned back to 'Classic Coke' about 5 months later to horrendous financial losses and several career shreddings), but...

'just because a group of well-informed experts makes a concensus decision, does not guarantee that that decision will ultimately prove to have been the right decision'

The board has survived in its present form this long, it can likely survive another week or so before any changes are considered. Hopefully we'll be able to provide a forum that will offer an improved opportunity to discuss DIR diving.

Doc

 

[Sloth]

Thanks for the feedback Doc

 

[lamont]

Look, you folks with all your alleged DIRness can't even decide what's DIR, what isn't and who's DIR and who's not. Until you can haul JJ in to officially declaim some of as UN-DIR and we stay within the TOS, you should try to find a way to co-exist.

You are not DIR, daniel aleman is not dir, arcticdiver is not DIR. Pretty much if you haven't taken a class from GUE or from AG or haven't dove with the WKPP/EKKP/etc then you aren't DIR. The fact that there might be debate over if AG is DIR or not doesn't detract from you being nowhere near close to DIR. Sorry.

If an idea, concept, procedure, etc. can’t stand up to scrutiny, examination and thoughtful critique or for that matter can't stand up even to sarcasm and ridicule, does it really deserve to live? Is life worth living on life support in a hot house environment where no one does anything but swap kool-aid flavored pablum. Please, pick up a gun and put it out of it's wining misery. When you succeed in reducing it to that, I'm sure we'll all leave.

It stands up to scrutiny just fine. It doesn't stand up to an endless stream of non-DIR people who feel offended by the name and want to redefine DIR so that they're DIR without taking a class, doing the work, or diving in any way remotely like DIR. Yeah, that doesn't work. So please, shut up and leave. And take ArcticDiver and OneBrightGator with you. Thanks.

Believe it our not, I fully support the GUE's concept that diver education in inadequate and find myself in about 90% agreement on what they do, more than I do with any other agency.

Good. Tired of arguing with you over the other 10% endlessly on every thread in this forum. Do that somewhere else.

 

[Thalassamania]

It stands up to scrutiny just fine. It doesn't stand up to an endless stream of non-DIR people who feel offended by the name and want to redefine DIR so that they're DIR without taking a class, doing the work, or diving in any way remotely like DIR.

Actually there are some elements that, in my opinion, do not stand up.

But are you mad? I have no interest in redefining that which it's originators can't seem to define. I have no interest in defining myself as DIR or as non-DIR. I have no interest in taking classes, or doing "the work" in a program that promises to have me diving as well as I expect a student completing an entry level class to dive. Get real.