Why not Fundies?

[TheRedHead]

Gas planning. That doesn't require me to take "fundies" have a long hose, or an hid light on my right arm with the chord wrapped crossways around my body or to become a drone now does it?

ha, ha. 3 different instructors have modified my gear. The last one thought my backplate was too large and put me in a DSS plate and harness. I liked it so much I bought it from him. Tech divers in locations like Cozumel don't dive with can lights, even DIR trained divers don't use them. For my diving, a can light makes absolutely no sense. But I haven't dived with any tech divers that don't use a long hose. It's really the most streamlined configuration once you get used to it. The warm water guys I dive with wear a pocket on the right side of the waist and wrap it under the pocket to the right, tuck into under the knife on the left the side of the wasit and around the neck to the right. Once you adopt this system, it really makes sense when you use a deco bottle as you clip the long hose off on your d-ring. It's right there. The the deco bottle hose goes left to right. Everything becomes automatic and you don't have to futz with hoses everywhere. It takes about 2 seconds to donate the primary and get the bungeed second regulator in your mouth. That configuration existed long before DIR. Don't think of it as becomming a drone, but rather a tech diving system, just like the conventional system is a rec diving system.

 

[limeyx]

So why would anyone have an issue with putting a light in a pocket?

1) accessibility -- if you need a backup light, if it's on your harness, you can easily get to it without fumbling through zippers
2) you can see the light if it accidentally turns on (happens somewhat regularly). If a light comes on in a pocket you might not see it and then when you do need it, the batteries are dead.

 

[TheRedHead]

Same way you would with a buddy...

Not really, Dennis. It's another system built on hogarthairn concepts and standardized configurations and drills to build muscle memory. I don't dive the same way at all; it's much more structured. I think the DIR divers ratio deco is more flexible than ahdering to a strict runtime that you follow with other systems.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

1) accessibility -- if you need a backup light, if it's on your harness, you can easily get to it without fumbling through zippers
2) you can see the light if it accidentally turns on (happens somewhat regularly). If a light comes on in a pocket you might not see it and then when you do need it, the batteries are dead.

But that makes some assumptions that may not be valid ...

1) My pockets don't have zippers ... they have velcro closures. They are located on the thighs of my drysuit, and are where I stow the rest of my backup gear. There's no more difficulty getting to my backup light than there is getting to my SMB, spool, wetnotes, or backup mask.

2) One of my backup lights is a Photon Torpedo, which is less prone to accidental turn-on than most twist-on lights. The other is an Ikelite PCa, which has a locking switch. Accidental turn-on isn't really a concern.

It's also worth noting that the "standard" solution to the latter problem assumes that your buddy will notice and tell you ... because when a light stowed on your harness accidentally turns on it will shine backward, beneath your armpit ... where you can't see it.

Solutions to problems like this really are situational ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[HowardE]

ha, ha. 3 different instructors have modified my gear. The last one thought my backplate was too large and put me in a DSS plate and harness. I liked it so much I bought it from him. Tech divers in locations like Cozumel don't dive with can lights, even DIR trained divers don't use them. For my diving, a can light makes absolutely no sense. But I haven't dived with any tech divers that don't use a long hose. It's really the most streamlined configuration once you get used to it. The warm water guys I dive with wear a pocket on the right side of the waist and wrap it under the pocket to the right, tuck into under the knife on the left the side of the wasit and around the neck to the right. Once you adopt this system, it really makes sense when you use a deco bottle as you clip the long hose off on your d-ring. It's right there. The the deco bottle hose goes left to right. Everything becomes automatic and you don't have to futz with hoses everywhere. It takes about 2 seconds to donate the primary and get the bungeed second regulator in your mouth. That configuration existed long before DIR. Don't think of it as becomming a drone, but rather a tech diving system, just like the conventional system is a rec diving system.

Everything IS automatic for me. I dive a lot. I've dived backplates, and jacket bcd's and have no difference. I can dive an AL67 or a Steel 120 and have no problem with trim.

I realize that to dive doubles I would need a BP/W setup... I just don't feel like I need to have a standardized setup. I know where my stuff is, and I pay attention to my buddy.

I'm not saying that for other people... some people SHOULD have structure and conformity, and all of that.

 

[limeyx]

But that makes some assumptions that may not be valid ...

1) My pockets don't have zippers ... they have velcro closures. They are located on the thighs of my drysuit, and are where I stow the rest of my backup gear. There's no more difficulty getting to my backup light than there is getting to my SMB, spool, wetnotes, or backup mask.

2) One of my backup lights is a Photon Torpedo, which is less prone to accidental turn-on than most twist-on lights. The other is an Ikelite PCa, which has a locking switch. Accidental turn-on isn't really a concern.

It's also worth noting that the "standard" solution to the latter problem assumes that your buddy will notice and tell you ... because when a light stowed on your harness accidentally turns on it will shine backward, beneath your armpit ... where you can't see it.

Solutions to problems like this really are situational ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

True, the previous poster just asked for a reason why ... and I gave a couple.
Scouts which even though they are similar to torpedos (or the other way around can easily turn on if you dont have the head adjusted quite quickly.

And yes, you cannot see a light that's turned on but there's a good chance your buddy might be able to.

And in thick gloves and a drysuit, I'd far rather get a light from my harness than mess with a pocket, plus I have other things in my pockets so having the lights somewhere else is handy.

Does that mean you *have* to do it that way? No, but there are some reasons for it.

 

[spectrum]

Without reading the prior 424 posts I'll simply say that at some point most divers attain training/experience that makes them comfortable with the dives that they want to make. They do not feel compelled to be professional dive students. The financial and time commitments are also a deterent. Availability varies widely.

This is not meant to slam anyone's need or desire to train extensively be it for mainstream or technical diving.

Pete

 

[tedtim]

Here's how I'd compare it ... the people who actively seek out DIR (or other technical-level) training are typically motivated to learn in much the same way as the people who seek out those expensive riding clinics ... and in fact, those will also typically be the people with the disposable income to pursue their recreational pursuits to that level. But the majority of divers would be more comparable to folks who are going for occasional rides at a dude ranch ... some will take lessons to improve their riding, but the majority will be content with their skills as long as they can manage the ride without falling off the horse ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Am I missing something in you logic Bob? It seems to me that you are saying that you have to have the cash to be motivated.

We also have to remember that regardless of any arguements about the benefits, DIR, Tech, Cave, all are forms of recreational activities. I don't see it as a profession and I don't see it as a commercial venture for the majority of the folks (instructors excluded).

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Am I missing something in you logic Bob? It seems to me that you are saying that you have to have the cash to be motivated.

Not to be motivated ... but (remembering the example I was responding to), it takes cash to fly to some other part of the country and pay $200 per hour for lessons.

We also have to remember that regardless of any arguements about the benefits, DIR, Tech, Cave, all are forms of recreational activities. I don't see it as a profession and I don't see it as a commercial venture for the majority of the folks (instructors excluded).

Not a profession, but an obsession. And once you start down the tech path, the amount of cash you're gonna spend goes up dramatically.

I spend between $15,000 and $20,000 annually on my scuba habit ... and I'm not even a tech diver. How many typical scuba divers can do that? How many would even want to?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Derek S]

I like thinking for myself, and to follow a pre-determined set of solutions actually detracts from my diving enjoyment.

Not trying to be argumentative here, but isn't all diving following a somewhat pre-determined set of procedures?

FWIW, even GI3 and JJ themselves have stated that divers need not get caught up in the "details".