Why move a valid trip report with pictures of problems, to Whine and Cheese?

[diverdoug1]

Although there are times when I suspect Howard's moderation is influenced by advertisers $$$.

I have received some personal messages implying this very thing.

 

[ScubaSteve]

One issue is that it happens at all.....the other is the holier than thou lies after the fact. But this really is nothing new. It had happened before and will again.


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---------- Post added April 9th, 2013 at 06:44 PM ----------

One issue is that it happens at all.....the other is the holier than thou lies after the fact. But this really is nothing new. It had happened before and will again.


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FTR

I would be ok with it if only it was honestly conveyed. It is the attempt to snowball the member through deception while keeping the advertisers happy that gets to me.


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[diverdoug1]

Have the Mods / Admins for this board EVER backed down and admitted they were wrong after digging thier heels in on an issue? Or have they always just spun around in a deepening quagmire of meaningless free association and self rightious blame, continuing to ignore reason?

 

[MakingBubbles]

Unlike some of the posters in this thread (including the SB Mods/Admins), I have no dog in this fight. I don't own a dive operation or have a beef with Dancer. Like most SB members, I'm just a diver who wants a place to respectfully collaborate with other divers, share my experiences, and hear about their experiences without our communications being swept under the rug and hidden from the mainstream posts just because a SB sponsor may not like it. I, like many others, have always thought of SB as a reliable source of great information. Any perception of censorship by the mods or admins that appears to provide a level of preferential treatment to sponsors undermines the integrity and user trust of the information on the entire board. Even the appearance of partiality or censorship should be remedied immediately. And yes, I consider moving a trip report that is receiving activity from the main forum area to an area of SB that is not indexed by external search engines (at the request of a sponsor) an act of censorship.

This act of censorship really reflects poorly on SB more than it does on the sponsor, and it undermines the subscribers' confidence. The value of a board is the subscribers’ ability to trust the information that is on the board. Let's face it, the only reason people visit any website is because they have confidence in the information it provides, otherwise they'll look elsewhere to a more reliable source. If I was a corporate sponsor of SB (other than Dancer), I would be upset by SB’s choice to relegate this thread. By doing so, the mods have potentially de-valued my advertising investment through the loss of subscribers and confidence.

SB should not be the "protector" of their corporate sponsors. Each company who is commented on by a user has equal opportunity to respond, whether they are a sponsor or not. I hear people give negative feedback about businesses all the time on other boards, and often the businesses respond. Each poster is entitled to present their facts and opinions as they see fit. It's my job, as an intelligent reader, to make my choice of who I believe more and whether I even care about the negative feedback. I often choose to take a chance on companies that have received negative reviews, sometimes it works out well, and sometimes not. But that is my choice. While there were some emotional statements, opinions, and hearsay in the trip report, the bulk of the trip report about this Dancer cruise was very factual and substantiated. IMHO, there is no legitimate reason to remove the Dancer trip report from the mainstream posts and it should be moved back.

 

[tridacna]

IMHO, there is no legitimate reason to remove the Dancer trip report from the mainstream posts and it should be moved back.

Incorrect. According to Pete, there is really an insidious sinister reason behind the OP. We are not allowed to know what it is however. (Most probably Wayne threatened to pull advertising if it was not removed. The "solution" was to move it somewhere where it could not be found on a search engine. But we all know this already) . Money talks and BS walks. Way of the world.

 

[MakingBubbles]

Incorrect.

I wouldn't say my opinion is "incorrect", it just differs from the opinion of the SB admins who are catering to their sponsor. In fact, it probably is the opinion of most of the people on SB.

According to Pete, there is really an insidious sinister reason behind the OP. We are not allowed to know what it is however. (Most probably Wayne threatened to pull advertising if it was not removed. The "solution" was to move it somewhere where it could not be found on a search engine. But we all know this already).

I’m not buying the “insidious sinister” plot story. But hypothetically, even if I thought that was the case, the problem is not about the OP or Dancer having a dispute. It’s about SB letting its sponsors control how information is disseminated on SB. I couldn’t care less about whose right, Dancer or the OP. What I care about is the integrity of the board.
Hypothetically, let’s assume the worst case for a minute… that the OP was trying to shake down Dancer. Does anyone really think that this would stop them or even slow down their efforts??? They’ll just post references and links to this thread other places (that are not influenced by Dancer) that are indexed by external search engines.
This “solution” has not really helped Dancer, it has just hurt the perception of SB. It’s not SB’s job to ensure that everything posted in the forums is accurate or pass judgment on who is right. It is the job of each poster to ensure that their facts and opinions are represented accurately. If someone (Dancer in this case) disagrees with a poster, they are welcome to respond to the post with their own facts or opinions. It is the reader’s job to determine whose information they believe the most. The only exception to this rule is when there is something that clearly violates the TOS (profanity, personal attacks, illegal activity, etc.) or a court order to remove.

Money talks and BS walks. Way of the world.

If Dancer is paying SB so much money on advertising that SB is willing ruin its reputation for this one sponsor, maybe Dancer should be using some of that money to improve the alleged boat and crew issues that they themselves acknowledged. Then we wouldn’t be having this discussion. Just saying…

 

[DandyDon]

I may not be following all this close enough, but I doubt decisions were made because of ad income. We probably don't know the back story, and I do trust Pete really.

I know we don't want another libel suit. It cost us a lot of money and him a lot of grief as well to deal with the last one. Being in the right is not enough.

 

[tridacna]

Don - If there was any libel involved, the thread would have been deleted or frozen but not moved. The act of moving this thread to a safer and less accessible place is frustrating and confusing. Someone writes a negative review and it's arbitrarily moved with a pithy excuse about three sides to the story? I'm sure Pete has a reason of some kind but I doubt that it's of a libelous nature. The value of the board is that it's NOT like TripAdvisor which is very much influenced by suspicious reports and advertisers. Why was this moved?

 

[BDSC]

It's all about the money guys, it's all about the money. I know you would like to think otherwise Don, but only one explanation makes any sense.

 

[The Chairman]

It's all about the money guys, it's all about the money.

You're correct, but not in the way you think.

ScubaBoard will not be used as a tool for extortion. If we have been advised that a thread was started simply to hurt a business because it refused to cave to demands we take a look. If we see corroborating evidence, we move the thread. If we see compelling evidence we delete the thread. Unfortunately, sharing this kind of info is counter productive but there are a few who simply won't let it go as they just love to dog pile on what they see as some major injustice done to them. You've been used by someone to get their way and it still isn't working. Read the second paragraph of the OP: their letter didn't work so they did what? Now consider that this was the second place the thread was started and that it's an exact replica. Wow. That speaks volumes by itself. Any more evidence and I would simply delete the thread.

Here's a good take away: when you threaten a business with destroying them on the internet and on ScubaBoard in particular to get your way: you will fail. I don't care how many people you can dupe: you won't dupe us. If that makes me or ScubaBoard unpopular in your eyes, so be it. Find another place to try and extort your prey. If you think that keeping ScubaBoard from being used as a tool for an extortionist is somehow unethical, then I would also suggest that this is not the place for you. Our standards are way higher than yours and we will not be a party to such dog piling no matter how much you complain about it. Judge me all you want, but I am not the one being unethical here.

For what it's worth: this thread is closed. Please don't start another.