Why isn't the Freedom Plate DIR compliant?

[ams511]

There maybe a very good reason/story behind the name which is/was important to original owner and to call it "silly" could be disrespectful to someone's memory. Just saying.

If he wanted to honor his brother then he could have simply named the boat after him. Why would you name a dive operation "gypsy" when the name has such negative connotations? Also what does blood have to do with diving?

 

[buddhasummer]

If he wanted to honor his brother then he could have simply named the boat after him. Why would you name a dive operation "gypsy" when the name has such negative connotations? Also what does blood have to do with diving?

I don't necessarily disagree with you just saying we don't know why so I'm reserving judgment as to its "sillyness", people often do weird things for weird but personal reasons.

---------- Post added November 6th, 2013 at 02:21 AM ----------

I'm not familiar with negative associations relating to the word gypsy, maybe I need to get out more.

 

[ams511]

I'm not familiar with negative associations relating to the word gypsy, maybe I need to get out more.

The connotation of a gypsy is a nomad that goes from place to making a living dishonestly. It may sound 19th century but they still do the same things today although it is no longer politically correct to call them gypsies. They are in Europe and the US. You probably don't have them in Japan.

 

[danvolker]

The connotation of a gypsy is a nomad that goes from place to making a living dishonestly. It may sound 19th century but they still do the same things today although it is no longer politically correct to call them gypsies. They are in Europe and the US. You probably don't have them in Japan.

It could have been worse....the boat could have been named: " The Mayor" or "The President" .....definitions are identical, but the meaning is far more painful

 

[ams511]

It could have been worse....the boat could have been named: " The Mayor" or "The President" .....definitions are identical, but the meaning is far more painful

A more generic name would have been "The Politician". "Monkey Business" or "The Left Hand" are also good names but are taken.

 

[cyclingman]

As the latest to pile on to this thread: Eric's thought seems to be that if certain guardian(s) of the flame of "correct" diving might bless the Freedom Plate, then more people might buy/use one. Seems to me that getting such blessing is a fool's errand, because many/most guardians of any particular flame are so singularly devoted to their particular definition of "correct" that they don't tolerate much divergence. Split fins violate GUE (what about Force Fins, my own favorite?) Side mount fans - a growing group, with their own acronyms, viz. UTD - argue about whether the SPGs can be on a 12" hose or only on a 6" hose. Etc.

From where I sit - recreational warm-water diver, ~25 dives per year, focused very intently on NOT doing it WRONG more than somebody's definition of DIR - much of this feels like people not just missing the forest for the trees, but even missing the trees for the leaves. I don't know the path from 400 Freedom Plate users to 4000 or 40,000. But I truly can't imagine that it's by appealing to the most specialized of the specialized.

I learned in a jacket, like almost everyone else. I switched to a plate - a Freedom Plate, in fact - and have been very happy with it. I do use 10 continuous feet of webbing, and a wing with cam band slots, but if somebody else wants to use a harness with quick releases, well, ok for them. When my kids learned, I had them skip jackets entirely - one uses a Transpac, the other an Oxycheq fabric backplate; so far they are happy & competent divers, and safe to the best of my judgement, but not, um, DIR. (And not in Freedom Plates, either, so far. Among other things, I'd like them to be able to dump all their weight...)

I had the chance to try side mount recently, because a guide lent me some of his own equipment. That seems like a good way to expose people to new ways of doing things.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

When I started the thread there was a lot I didn't fully understand in the DIR world as far as the political aspects go.
I know about the gear requirements and the rigging etc. but there is a deeper layer apparently that I didn't know about since I have never been fully indoctrinated into the organization.
My final understanding is that GUE started as a mission specific group to do world record breaking cave dives with zero fatalities and problems.
The philosophy then spead outward and they made a push to commercialize the concept to fit into all aspects of diving, both recreational and technical. They are (as Lynne put it) a project oriented dive organization and that's why all the gear must follow a specific structure; so it can go from a recreational start up through the most advanced technical dives - all the gear is exactly the same, and that's why the Freedom Plate doesn't fit.
But now I see a contradiction in that Dan Volker mentioned that JJ doesn't give a rat's behind (his words) about the recreational world, he was just interested in grooming the best of the best to make them part of the GUE WKPP group so they had more prospects to choose from. This surprises me because I remember when MHK was waging his jihad on the west coast recreational boards verbally assaulting just plain everyday fun divers who were minding their own business.
I assumed he was sent by the Florida headquarters to shake up the LA area then spread it up and down the coast from Seattle to San Diego.
So if they were grooming cave and wreck divers from nothing to go dive caves and wrecks, then why were they out on the west coast harrassing California recreational divers? We don't have caves or any wrecks to speak of.

My original question was an innocent one, I just wanted to know why DIR couldn't use my product. Now I know and I've moved on.
The thread kind of blew up but that's OK. There was definitely some entertainment factor and I had fun.

 

[danvolker]

When I started the thread there was a lot I didn't fully understand in the DIR world as far as the political aspects go.
I know about the gear requirements and the rigging etc. but there is a deeper layer apparently that I didn't know about since I have never been fully indoctrinated into the organization.
My final understanding is that GUE started as a mission specific group to do world record breaking cave dives with zero fatalities and problems.
The philosophy then spead outward and they made a push to commercialize the concept to fit into all aspects of diving, both recreational and technical. They are (as Lynne put it) a project oriented dive organization and that's why all the gear must follow a specific structure; so it can go from a recreational start up through the most advanced technical dives - all the gear is exactly the same, and that's why the Freedom Plate doesn't fit.
But now I see a contradiction in that Dan Volker mentioned that JJ doesn't give a rat's behind (his words) about the recreational world, he was just interested in grooming the best of the best to make them part of the GUE WKPP group so they had more prospects to choose from. This surprises me because I remember when MHK was waging his jihad on the west coast recreational boards verbally assaulting just plain everyday fun divers who were minding their own business.
I assumed he was sent by the Florida headquarters to shake up the LA area then spread it up and down the coast from Seattle to San Diego.
So if they were grooming cave and wreck divers from nothing to go dive caves and wrecks, then why were they out on the west coast harrassing California recreational divers? We don't have caves or any wrecks to speak of.

My original question was an innocent one, I just wanted to know why DIR couldn't use my product. Now I know and I've moved on.
The thread kind of blew up but that's OK. There was definitely some entertainment factor and I had fun.

Eric,
I like what you are trying to accomplish, and I believe it can definitely be DIR gear.... As much as I don't agree 100% with GUE positions, I have way too much respect for JJ to try to create the impression that GUE would have a thought in their collective consciousness like the comment about not giving a "rat's as*".... Whatever I said , and I'm not going to go back through a ton of posts....what I would want you and others to get out of it, was that their "Primary Mission" was to create great Cave Divers and great Tech divers for the WKPP.....and it has expanded to include creating many great cave and tech divers that may never be near North Florida.....They are creating a "Global" community of GUE's...a community that will dive extreme locations all over the globe.

You can still reach a very large DIR group, that has interest in GUE ideas, but remains just DIR.

 

[uncfnp]

?..//... from 400 Freedom Plate users to 4000 or 40,000. But I truly can't imagine that it's by appealing to the most specialized of the specialized.

401 now and not a DIR/GUE bone in my recreational body.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

I do know several fully GUE certified divers that use my plate for single tank recreational dives with absolutely no quams.
I know there are some that take the concept to the letter and others that loosely adopt the principal. For the GUE people that loosely adopt the principal when they are in recreational mode and want to try out a Freedom Plate because they think it looks comfortable and can visualize/see the idea behind the design, I'd love to set you up with one. I think you would love it.
What more can I say?

Eric,
I like what you are trying to accomplish, and I believe it can definitely be DIR gear.... As much as I don't agree 100% with GUE positions, I have way too much respect for JJ to try to create the impression that GUE would have a thought in their collective consciousness like the comment about not giving a "rat's as*".... Whatever I said , and I'm not going to go back through a ton of posts....what I would want you and others to get out of it, was that their "Primary Mission" was to create great Cave Divers and great Tech divers for the WKPP.....and it has expanded to include creating many great cave and tech divers that may never be near North Florida.....They are creating a "Global" community of GUE's...a community that will dive extreme locations all over the globe.

You can still reach a very large DIR group, that has interest in GUE ideas, but remains just DIR.