1st Back Plate Disappointment

[LFMarm]

ETA2: anyone got a source for generic webbing that matches the supple/stiff characteristics of the Halcyon webbing? My cheapskate heart loves the idea of buying the webbing for less money, but I’d even buy it for the same price so that I didn’t look like a walking billboard with all those H’s on it. (having said that, I actually do find the H’s useful: they let me know if my waist strap is twisted, and it makes lining things up on the harness very quick and easy. I just hate looking like an advertisement.)

Piranha manufacturing has webbing of 3 different stiffnesses.

 

[grantmac]

Piranha manufacturing has webbing of 3 different stiffnesses.

In my experience their webbing has different thicknesses, but none of it is particularly stiff. I'd really like to find some which is the same as Xdeep waist webbing.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Well, I'll play Devil's Advocate and agree with virtually everything the OP has posted. I've got steel plates, aluminum plates, a carbon plate and a Freedom plate, and except for the Freedom plate, they all have suboptimal routing for both shoulder and waist belt.
It's all a Hogarthian legacy, which has its own advantages and disadvantages. So we defend what we have and call it correct.
Me? I haven't fixed the shoulder angle issue, because as others have pointed out, it's loose underwater. And I haven't yet sewn up a climber's Y for the front of the crotch strap. So it does pull down at the buckle when my wing is full at the surface.
But I have switched to an adjustable harness with all those extra failure points and I'm much happier. Yeah, I can get in and out of a Hogarthian rig, tho' less easily these days as my shoulders age. But the angles to my adjustable harness are perfect in front; it's comfy, and I can loosen things easily for doffing. I can even tighten the shoulders comfortably to put my Kraken close in between my shoulder blades when I'm diving DH.
Win-win, except for the occasional scoffing glances from folks with "pure" rigs. But at my age, I'm too old to care.

Ha ha ha ha ha we don’t have to worry about stink eye glances from purists up here, there are none - too much work and not fun enough for them.
I’m actually really surprised that someone hasn’t tweaked the slot configuration yet on a Hogarthian setup. I guess it’s a classic feature of blindly follow the leader?
It wouldn’t be that hard, except for the channel. The channel really needs to go, no reason for it with a single tank rig. Doubles is different.
The problem is the way it is now with the channel it may require a two piece harness, which might be a felony.

 

[nellythe1th]

In my experience their webbing has different thicknesses, but none of it is particularly stiff. I'd really like to find some which is the same as Xdeep waist webbing.

I just got some of the standard webbing from Piranha and love it

it is stiffer than the halcyon webbing with the "h" on it and half as stiff as the Diverite webbing it's a good mix

I also like the colors you can get and that you can get color hardware, too!

R/

 

[grantmac]

I just got some of the standard webbing from Piranha and love it

it is stiffer than the halcyon webbing with the "h" on it and half as stiff as the Diverite webbing it's a good mix

I also like the colors you can get and that you can get color hardware, too!

R/

Interesting, I got their stiff webbing and it's anything but. It's just thick and floppy.

I'd like something similar to DR for a waist belt and something closer to Halcyon for shoulders (sidemount harness which is not continuous).

 

[Inazuma zoomer]

Hey everyone OP here…

Thanks for all the replies. I seem to have doubled up the post, by mistake, so apologies for that.

It seems there are 3 distinct groups:

1 it’s just how it is, don’t think about it
2 it’s the person, not the equipment, you need to make it work
3 yeah, slots, webbing routing and plate positioning are ‘sub-optimal’ but…

I believe in questioning the status quo and goes to show I’m not just being pedantic.

As I said, I’m a new diver & even newer to bpw. I’m doing fundies soon, to set me up for the future and I’m sure I’ll get full instruction/ explanation. And while I can see shortcomings, I’m sure I’ll have to ‘conform’ initially.

I’ll update in due course - maybe post pics of my newly made, sublimely ergonomic, carbon fibre back plate.

Thanks for the input.

 

[happy-diver]

Then there's the profit margin is greatest by far with a single piece of pox unimaginative ill fed webbing crowd

and then I'm told, that it is right to put a wobbling sta over that dumb webbing, and a ridiculously huge eyelet

Cut the stinking one piece strap and sew in a couple of tri glides

Cut the strap cut the strap cut the strap cut the strap cut the strap cut the strap, cut the strap cut the strap cut

Run the straps over the trapeziuses run the straps over the trapeziuses run the straps over the trapeziusesuses

not in the crevice

Not in the crevice not in the crevice not in the crevice not in the crevice not in the crevice not in the crevice no



Puff puf phew this demonstrating sure takes it out of you, might take it easy and head over to some university


Although I have had great success in balancing my 120s 100% firmly on the hump of my plates with M.M.O.'s

Made My Own stabilisers

depending on if you can operate a cam buckle

 

[Still Kicking]

Oh, boy… You are not going to like my answer for this.

Im my experience, I have found that it’s usually the user’s preconceived expectations both as a scuba diver and as a land-based creature that often lead away from what actually is the optimal solution.

For example, you mentioned something about your golf bag being much more ergonomic than your back plate and harness. Well… Your golf bag is not designed to be used underwater. Conversely, believe it or not, your back plate and harness are not designed to be used on land!

No one will argue that a backplate and harness is both uncomfortable and inconvenient on land. But seeing as it’s on-land use makes up 0.3% of its total use, it’s not optimized for that. . It’s optimized for functioning in the water, where most of the weight is being carried by the water, not by your body. It’s purpose is to hold everything in place from movement, not to support weight.

This is extremely common from new scuba divers, and even experienced scuba divers new to technical gear. It does not work in a way that is intuitive for such people. It really does take some experience and possibly some mentoring to really understand how to work with it.

Take, for example, your observation that a misconfigured harness will make getting to your valves more difficult. That’s very true. But the problem is not with the concept, or even the particular hardware that you have at your disposal. The problem is the way it has been set up relative to your body and geometry. Unless you are an highly-unusually shaped person, it can be made to work where everything is positioned right where it’s supposed to be. There are people who are 5 foot 4 and people who are 6 foot 4 and use the same equipment, and can configure it to work properly. The same as true for 130 pound and 330 pound people. (ETA: Not the same equipment without change. In other words, each of those people can configure the same model of backplate with the same type of harness to work correctly for them. You aren’t going to be able to move a backplate and harness from one of those people to the other without reconfiguring it, but the same equipment could be made to work for any of them.)

You are very correct to observe that misconfigured equipment will not work well for you. However, it’s rarely the fault of the fundamental design of the equipment.

I can’t tell you how much tech gear I have bought from people who sold it to me cheap saying, “this stuff is garbage: it works terribly and I don’t understand why anyone would want to use it.” I’m grateful for such people: I get equipment cheap that way.

It always surprises me, though, that nobody ever asks the opposite question: “how come a great deal of very experienced divers can dive successfully with this equipment, and I can’t? In fact, they *choose* to dive with that equipment. Why?” When a person reflects upon that a bit, it might lead one to question some of the preconceived ideas and assumptions that they have made as part of that process. After all, some of those experienced divers are also very intelligent as well as talented designers. Is it that they can’t see the problems you see? Or is it that they don’t experience those same problems because they approach the solution from a different direction?

Back plate and wing configurations rarely work out of the box, and will almost always require a number of dives to begin to understand the concept. Like I said, a mentor can go along way in accelerating that process, but even without that, it can be done on your own. but it demands a different style of thinking and a different style of diving. That’s why people use it: to facilitate those differences. It’s not for everyone.

In the end, there’s absolutely no requirement that you dive a back plate and wing. Millions of people jump in the water with a cushiony, comfortable jacket BCD and live to tell the tale. Heck, they greatly enjoy everything about it. And some people can even do it with decent trim and buoyancy. And there’s no shame in that whatsoever.

Can I give this post 100 ?

I so often see the "buy the DGX BP" response and bite my tongue. I see absolutely nothing wrong with thecplate itself and it is good value but I wonder how many people get it and don't enjoy diving it because they don't set it up properly.

I have sold dozens (hundreds?) of plates and set up each one to fit each diver. I can think of maybe two people who came back and weren't happy (not so much fit but other issues in both cases, but still, unsatisfied).

It can be hard to see the extra value in a brick and mortar BP but a proper fitting and guidance on how to adjust if need be go a long way toward ultimate satisfaction.

 

[dmaziuk]

The channel really needs to go, no reason for it with a single tank rig.

Now that you mention it... I wouldn't mind the bolt heads not sticking out of the plate. The bottom one, anyway: I do feel it every once in a while. It doesn't bother me much but I'd be fine without it there.

 

[divezonescuba]

You might want to take a look at this. You can do the same thing for the shoulder straps.