Why is DIR controversial?

[Bill51]

really? "how stupid" they are?

seriously?

and your friend still allows them on his boat?

have you ever witnessed this yourself, or is this second-hand knowlege?

I didn’t witness his problem, but I had a near blow up in Coz a few years ago with some DIR divers who let us know they were gracing us on a reef dive with their presence after a few days in the Cenotes. While a DM candidate was helping an OW student with their BC one of the “buttheads” butted in telling the student that if they had a “good” instructor and dive shop they wouldn’t be hassling with junk equipment. After the ensuing war of words with the shop owner who was on the boat the dive operator felt so bad that they comped us half the dives. That’s the worst I’ve seen but more than once I’ve had DIR divers butt into OW classes disrupting instructor student discussions or work. Unless someone’s life was in eminent danger I would NEVER interject myself into a conversation between a student and instructor I didn’t know, and while I’ve seen a few non-DIR types do it they never did in the same totally rude manner.

Just a thought, but maybe a short session on polite dive site etiquette should be added to a DIR class to improve public relations. We all know there’s things we can learn from DIR, but let us decide what those things might be and don’t make us buy the whole thing all or nothing. I have also experienced DIR divers who won’t have a thing to do with obvious non-DIR divers at a dive site, and I take the attitude I have something in common with everyone who dives – not just those that dive the same way I do.

 

[The Horn]

I don't think there is anything unique or obscure about diving as a team. I think it's what being a dive buddy should be, but it's clear from my experiences and what's written here that it often isn't.

Perhaps some of what is discussed on here sometimes makes me wonder what other people are thinking or perhaps are not thinking.

I guess what I find confusing is the need to discuss something that (to me) should be so ingrained or "basic" that it makes no sense to discuss. Team diving:your buddy the basics of safe diving.

Similarly I don't understand how someone could just call someone an "idiot" and belitttle thier diving skills on a charter and not walk off with a handfull of teeth?

Anyway..........it is sad that a drop of oil in otherwise great drinking water ruins it and any one training agency's bad defect can do just that.

On the topic of strange: do people that have taken DIR-F or above training refer to themselves as DIR divers? "Hi I'm DIR Dave" etc I have PADI training and don't introduce myself as "Brent the PADI guy".

 

[Adobo]

Many of these folks are not buttheads in the real world, but turn the discussion to scuba and they are almost angry that not everyone does things their way. I can’t think of any other group of divers I’ve run into over the years that have acted like that.

Edit: Sorry Nemrod... I should not have done that.

There are all kinds of people out there telling others that their way is better than the way you might be doing it.

The vintage divers will tell you that all this new fandangled equipment is stupid. The solo divers will tell you that relying on a team is a sure way to get yourself killed. The rebreather guys... and so on and so forth.

Who is anyone to tell me that I shouldn’t be allowed to do that or I’m a fool for diving that way?

You really think anyone cares if you dive that way? I know that I don't. You can dive anyway you want for as long as you pose no danger to anyone else. If however you start recommending unsafe practices to the unwitting.. things change.

 

[lamont]

All the DIR folk I have interacted with are at my local watering hole...a quarry in PA. This quarry seems to have two lots...folks there doing their checkout dives and the regulars. These regulars have their doubles, their stage and deco bottles, their canister lights and there is even a couple of folks that have their Inspriation rebreathers there. In the beginning I thought I'd be social and intereact with some of these folks, but after half a dozen times of not so warm welcomings, I stopped interacting with them. After that I have had a few unsolicited interactions.

Do you even know that they are DIR? If they're diving inspiration rebreathers that would tend to indicate that they are not DIR (even most DIR divers who stray from the flock and wind up diving rebreathers usually go with a KISS or a Meg and not an inspiration...)

 

[Bill51]

There are all kinds of tech divers trained through a wide variety of agencies. Just because you saw someone in a doubles and a long hose doesn't mean that person was trained in DIR diving. In fact, the folks diving with those Inspiration rebreathers as far as I know are not DIR - by definition.

Very good point! I do know some non-DIR tech divers who do have oversized egos and could easily be confused with a true DIR diver just because of the similarity of their gear. I’m sure DIR has taken a few hits because of those folks that they don’t deserve.

 

[lamont]

The vintage divers will tell you that all this new fandangled equipment is stupid. The solo divers will tell you that relying on a team is a sure way to get yourself killed. The rebreather guys... and so on and so forth.

The ones that I hate are the vintage technical divers. They always tell me on TDS that I'm going to kill myself diving helium to 100 fsw because I'll get complacent and die, and I really need a deep air class...

 

[H2Andy]

While a DM candidate was helping an OW student with their BC one of the “buttheads” butted in telling the student that if they had a “good” instructor and dive shop they wouldn’t be hassling with junk equipment.

someone who does that will do that whether they are DIR or not. they're just an *******.

more than once I’ve had DIR divers butt into OW classes disrupting instructor student discussions or work.

and you've never had non-DIR *******s do stupid things that annoy and/or disrupt you during a dive?

it's just the DIR divers?

i would wager than the percentage of butthole divers who are non-DIR is far greater than DIR buttheads ...

it's just that no one ever seems to use the same argument to say that, say, all PADI are buttholes because a few PADI are buttholes

 

[marusso]

To reply to the post about someone pointing out unsafe gear. The only time I have ever seen someone singled out was by an instructor is with a new PADI open water instructor. She bashed everyone's gear configs publicly on a dive boat with 20 divers on board.

Before my happy DIR equipment conversion, when I dove with my Zeagle ranger, and 8 inch dive knife strapped on my inner calf, the DIR guys never said a thing about it, so to simply say someone trained by X-agency is a jerk is a mute point in the real world.

As everyone continues to say, the main controversy is usually stems from our world renown internet divers, not the people actually doing the diving.

 

[Daedalus]

The association of DIR with the situation at Wakulla where a public resource is being sequestered for the private gain of a privileged few.

 

[Bill51]

Go read some of Nemrod's posts.. Here's one of his latest gems:

To be fair, I think this was said with a hint of sarcasm. But there is a lot of what he believes in this statement.

There are all kinds of people out there telling others that their way is better than the way you might be doing it.

The vintage divers will tell you that all this new fandangled equipment is stupid. The solo divers will tell you that relying on a team is a sure way to get yourself killed. The rebreather guys... and so on and so forth.


You really think anyone cares if you dive that way? I know that I don't. You can dive anyway you want for as long as you pose no danger to anyone else. If however you start recommending unsafe practices to the unwitting.. things change.

But would you interject yourself in my class with my student being taught the way recommended by my agency just because you think your way is safer?

Funny that I can tease the heck out of the vintage divers I know or meet, and dive with and they can tease me in good fun, but I would never feel comfortable teasing a DIR diver I didn’t know because they just don’t always have the same sense of humor (many times in my experience). Not that they would let that stop them from telling me what’s wrong without so much of a smile on their face.