Why is DIR controversial?

[ShallowDiverDave]

Really? You're unique amongst divers....mmmhmmm.

Well, generally speaking, and perhaps more importantly, than any other person. I'm and ALIEN, prepare to be probed.

 

[krcollins]

Correct. Because PADI doesn't hold tank position as a standard to which you need to dive (nor does GUE for that matter). You would more than likely be praised for thinking about how to maintain better trim from the GUE crowd along with putting your valves where they are reachable for a shutdown if necessary.
Chris

Most GUE divers would not have said anything but if she was GUE trained she would have been taught that proper trim should be attained by adjusting the angle of the knee bend and that mounting the tank high might prevent a heads up position due to head contact with the first stage.

 

[RonFrank]

amen.

colors are distracting unless they are fish or tube corals. Especially when you are trying to take pictures.

I think this depends a lot upon where you are diving, and with how many.

When I dive places like BH, which is a training spot, I really like it when people wear something distinctive. Have a group of students ascend upon you, and next thing you know, everyone looks like everyone else, especially if the vis is low. I've found the same to be true in FL, where I am taking photo's, distracted, and sometimes diving with strangers. Turn around, and next thing you know, you have no idea which divers is your buddy if they all look similar.

I've noticed instructors generally wear something outrageous for this reason, baseball caps, and lizards or other critters attached to their tanks are common.

I'm mostly black, black wetsuit, black drysuit, black fins, black mask, but my spring straps have a neon Yellow rubber tab on them, and other dives say they can always spot me.

 

[headhunter]

My phrase "typical of a lot, but not all, of DIR neophytes."

Have you not heard references to 'open water strokes' applied to divers choosing jacket bcds and non-DIR equipment? East and West?

I don't think it is life's greatest problem, but do sense an attitude of elitism. See p. 67 DIR: Fundamentals of Better Diving: "In contrast to sloppy-fitting jacket-style BCs...", and "...a classic style open water BC is not only necessarily bulky and loose fitting, it also tends to force a diver's feet into a downward angle, a terrible swimming position...

The divers I dive with typically have jacket bcds; their swimming position is feet up, off the coral, and the bcds are not sloppy or loose fitting. They maintain excellent neutral buoyancy.

Well, OK...do you find it "typical of a lot, but not all, of DIR neophytes" in your area? In other words, have you really actually witnessed this behavior personally (enough to use the word "typical" in the context of that phrase)?

I have only heard one person make these kinds of references and it was like hearing nails on a chalkboard. In this area, so many people do so much to convey a positive image in the community and all it takes is one guy making comments like this within earshot of someone to give us all a bad name. 1 out of 75 - 100 people is not what I would call "typical of a lot, but not all, of DIR neophytes" when referring to my area.

That's what prompts me to wonder if this behavior is a difference marked between east coast and west coast. I have never dove on the east coast, but besides that one individual I mentioned earlier, I've never heard of this bad behavior from DIR divers on the west coast. Most of the comments about this behavior seem to be coming from people on the east coast.

I don't think that the passage that you quote from the Fundamentals text really supports the claim of elitism.

Comments were made in that book based upon Jarrod Jablonski's experience. While I've seen plenty of people in jacket style BC's diving well (most of them are from ScubaBoard), I've got to say that the vast majority that are not the regular ScubaBoard members that we dive with are in a terrible swimming position with their feet pointing down and stirring up all sorts of stuff. I can't really comment on the fit of their jacket style BC, because I didn't look that closely. I have a jacket style BC in my garage that I dove for about 10 years that fit me well, but never fit me as snugly as my original backpack that I dove for around 6 years or my current backplate and wing which I've had now for about 2 and a half years. So, by comparison and judging from what I've seen I'd have to say that the statement in the book is generally correct.

Christian

 

[Daryl Morse]

Bob,

Thanks for the comments. The more I think about it, what you have said is probably true, with regards to my instructor.

I knew the day would come when someone would actively question my decision to turn solo so early. I very much understand the concern an experienced diver would have about my decision. The simple response from me is that I’m very very different from any other diver. Yes I am currently diving solo, but I have limited the profiles tremendously. I’m not going to explain all the details here, because I don’t feel the need to justify it given that I knowingly understand the risks, and perhaps most importantly I’m an extremely cautious and logical person. In brief, I haven’t and don’t plan to dive solo below 30 ft for hundreds of dives, so that I can gain the experience while minimizing the risk to what I believe is right for me. I have spent many hours in my life beneath the surface at such depths without scuba equipment (free diving), and am therefore extremely confident in the water. I know you were not asking me to justify my situation, but I figured I would satisfy any curious minds.

--
David

I completely agree with Bob. If you have only 25 or so dives, you have no business diving solo, be it at 30 fsw or otherwise. You claim to be extremely cautious and logical, but your actions bely that claim. At 25 dives, you don't even know what you don't know, let alone have the skills to do it even if you've "read about it". How can you possibly claim to know enough and be skilled enough to dive solo safely, particularly considering that many would argue that safe solo diving is an oxymoron irrespective of how much experience one has. Do you have any redundant equipment? If so, do you know how to use it? Do you know what you'd do if you got entangled or had a major equipment failure? You claim to know all of the risks, but in reality, you're ignorant and if ***** happened while you were solo diving you would stand a significant likelihood of dying. I can see why your former instructor would disassociate himself from you. This has nothing to do with DIR. There is no agency that would support your contention that you should be solo diving.

 

[Jasonmh]

All the nay-sayer's on this thread should come to my house tomorrow and I'll give a presentation on DIR and serve everybody some free kool-aid.

You must be one of those internet dir jerks I'm always hearing about. I suppose you are going to tell me you actually nice in person
Or are you just full of angst from not getting to dive yesterday, haha.. just kidding bud
(sorry we couldn't make it, the weather was still pretty bad here)

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I want to dive with you guys – if I can wear an old Garcia tie die wetsuit.

Definitely ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Bob,

As usual a nice, thought out post. That said, my personal expierence is not the norm.

Back several years ago when I did my full cave training, I ran into a group taking Cave 1 or 2 (don't recall) in N FL. Don't know fully if it was just those three or what but the crap I was given based on my prior IANTD training and NACD training and specific references to GI3 rambles left a bitter taste. (hearing 'farm animal stupid' amoung other things in the same sentence with respect to friends of your dive instructor does that). At this point, I don't recall the exact wordings but some of which was quoted directly from GI3's ramblings and its really not important, its just history that shaped my personal perceptions.

The funny thing is, many years later, I have developed a respect for some of the 'internet' DIR folks. (not all mind you). I have had discussions regarding gear/protocols and they were very civil.(in PM's), even acklowedging that I was just as safe a diver as they even though our systems where a bit different. Other's, well, a bit more civility would help.

Best idea in this whole thread, get rid of these terms DIR, stroke, kool-aid etc and lose the historical baggage. GI3 was in my opinion one of the worst things for the GUE image and a causal factor for this constroversy today. (at least, my perceptions had were influenced quite a bit by this)

GUE training, really, isn't all that different from the other 'reputable' technical training available and really could stand to 'fit in' a little more. IE, do you differeniate between and IANTD advanced trimix diver and a TDI advanced trimix diver like you do between the GUE tec 3 (or appropriate) and the IANTD/TDI/NAUI advanced trimix diver? (at least on the internet)This, I believe can be done by adjusting a few attitudes and conciously trying to remove the history. If I understand the GUE ideals/goals, this can happen without changing any of the standards, philosophies or ideals for thier training.

In the end, the smart divers will choose their own 'teams' when they do complex dives anyway. In reality, cert agency doesn't make the biggest factor in choosing my dive buddies - skill, attitude and expierence do.

Perhaps one day I will again meet real live true DIR divers that aren't jerks. (I have only met three that I know of, back in 2002 and as I look back, they really were jerks)

We had a few like that pass through the DIR program here a few years back ... most of 'em don't even dive anymore, they're off being "the best" at some other recreational activity these days.

For the most part, they're worth ignoring ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[ShallowDiverDave]

I completely agree with Bob. If you have only 25 or so dives, you have no business diving solo, be it at 30 fsw or otherwise. You claim to be extremely cautious and logical, but your actions bely that claim. At 25 dives, you don't even know what you don't know, let alone have the skills to do it even if you've "read about it". How can you possibly claim to know enough and be skilled enough to dive solo safely, particularly considering that many would argue that safe solo diving is an oxymoron irrespective of how much experience one has. Do you have any redundant equipment? If so, do you know how to use it? Do you know what you'd do if you got entangled or had a major equipment failure? You claim to know all of the risks, but in reality, you're ignorant and if ***** happened while you were solo diving you would stand a significant likelihood of dying. I can see why your former instructor would disassociate himself from you. This has nothing to do with DIR. There is no agency that would support your contention that you should be solo diving.

First let me start by saying, this post is extremely disrespectful and insulting, even if you are trying to make me understand the danger. Of course I am using redundant air and of course I know how to use it, are YOU nuts? I have experienced a minor random equipment failure, and I calmly resolved the issue, underwater. How dare you speculate about what I may or may not know. I never claimed to know all the risks. And how dare you tell me what I have business doing or not. You may not drive a car, do you understand all the risks, do you know how you will respond in an equipment failure, then you will most certainly die if you don't, you have no business doing something that might kill you like that? You shouldn't be making assumptions about someone you don't know. I would never want to dive with someone like you, and I will most certainly make that assumption.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Bob,

Thanks for the comments. The more I think about it, what you have said is probably true, with regards to my instructor.

I knew the day would come when someone would actively question my decision to turn solo so early. I very much understand the concern an experienced diver would have about my decision. The simple response from me is that I’m very very different from any other diver. Yes I am currently diving solo, but I have limited the profiles tremendously. I’m not going to explain all the details here, because I don’t feel the need to justify it given that I knowingly understand the risks, and perhaps most importantly I’m an extremely cautious and logical person. In brief, I haven’t and don’t plan to dive solo below 30 ft for hundreds of dives, so that I can gain the experience while minimizing the risk to what I believe is right for me. I have spent many hours in my life beneath the surface at such depths without scuba equipment (free diving), and am therefore extremely confident in the water. I know you were not asking me to justify my situation, but I figured I would satisfy any curious minds.

--
David

I'm not questioning your decisions, David ... but I know that if I were your instructor, I'd be worried about you.

Most of us have had a tendency at some point ... usually between the time we get comfortable in the water and the time we start to realize just how much there is about scuba that we hadn't thought about yet ... to overestimate our ability as a scuba diver. I know that I have on more than one occasion. Usually something will happen that will impose a reality check. It's good to have enough knowledge and skills to be able to survive the epiphany ... particularly if you've already decided you don't need a dive buddy.

You can easily die on a 30-foot dive if something happens you're not prepared for. Best to get some solo training, if for no other reason than to have someone with some experience help you get better prepared for contingencies ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)