H2Andy
Contributor
Bill51:
ah yes.. Green and Bill ...
hey, i'll draw diagrams for you two as to what a hollisitic system is ...
hollistic...
system...
system....
system...
:10:
Why is DIR controversial?
- Thread starter namabiru
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ah yes.. Green and Bill ...
hey, i'll draw diagrams for you two as to what a hollisitic system is ...
hollistic...
system...
system....
system...
:10:
matt_unique
Guest
I've had an epiphany...change the DIR Forum description from this:
>>From the flooded caves at Wakulla to the Andrea Doria; find out how these divers systematize their diving for maximum safety and fun.<<
to something more accurate and representative like this:
"From the flooded caves at Wakulla to the Andrea Doria to 12' sandy bottom shore dives; find out how these divers adapt their diving practices for what they consider maximum safety and fun".
I think everyone would feel much better!!
--Matt
>>From the flooded caves at Wakulla to the Andrea Doria; find out how these divers systematize their diving for maximum safety and fun.<<
to something more accurate and representative like this:
"From the flooded caves at Wakulla to the Andrea Doria to 12' sandy bottom shore dives; find out how these divers adapt their diving practices for what they consider maximum safety and fun".
I think everyone would feel much better!!
--Matt
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H2Andy:
DIN - doing it nerd? Or was that NEWD?
I have been unclear. I ain't all uptight about "DIR". I'm just answering the question of the OP, explaining why "DIR" is controversial.lamont:
I'm playing the role of the disinterested third party here.
The guy on the couch is asking "why do other people think I'm arrogant and elitist?"
I'm answering "because you tell them they're not doing it right."
The guy on the couch then goes into all the reasons it's "their" fault for not understanding, why the way he does things is good and beyond reproach, why he should be able to tell others they're not doing it right without their getting all upset about it because they should understand that he really doesn't mean they're doing it wrong just that they're not doing it the same way as he is and since he's claimed the term "doing it right/DIR" as applicable to the way he's doing it then they should really not be so thin skinned as to think that when he says they're "not DIR" that they're not doing it right but should understand that they really could be doing it right but can't say they're doing it right the same way he is doing it right - "DIR"! And so if they still think he's arrogant or elitist then it's all a big misunderstanding on their part.
---
Whatever I think of "DIR" or "DIR" divers (and if you look back over the years you'll see I've never said anything to denigrate the system or the philosophy or the equipment or the procedures or protocols, even when I've had issues with specific practices) is irrelevant to the question and to the answer to the question.
The acronym is confrontational, arrogant and elitist.
Rick
H2Andy
Contributor
Rick Murchison:
but that's not what he asked. he asked why is DIR controversial.
the statement that DIR practicioners are arrogant and elitists is your bias coming through. that's your belief.
a disinterested party would first seek to define several things:
1. what is meant by DIR?
2. what is meant by controversial?
3. is there any support for the statement that DIR (as defined) is in fact controversial (as defined)?
4. what does the evidence indicate is the reason for #3, should such be found? this is bound to be a theory (an explanation of the facts) and as such can never be proven, only disproven by further facts.
so, let's all agree that the answer to this question is theory only, and no one can honestly claim to have the right answer, though you certainly may belive you do
Rick Murchison:
that's your opinion, and just because it's your opinion doesn't make it so
Green_Manelishi
Contributor
H2Andy:
Lemming ... lemming ... lemming ...
I was once almost assimilated. Then a friend who is in fact GUE trained counseled me to "not be a dckhed knowitall dive nahtzee". So, I solo dive, my knife is too big and my DS is not a cave cut DUI trilam. Whatever. Life it too short to drink blended whisky (although that does explain the habit some have of adding ice and water) or to argue about DIR.
Besides, I like most of you guys; your in water skills and ability to dive well as a team provide a great example.
ROCK ON !!!
- Messages
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- Port Orchard, Washington State
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- 1000 - 2499
I understood you were being devil's advocatish.
But really, if people are so put off by the acronym why are they engaging in discussion in the first place?
Really its only super controversial on the internet. Even TS&M's husband thinks I'm pretty ordinary in real life.
I could understand if the DIR answer was sprouting up all over the place in the "I want a pony bottle" threads, but even most of the die-hards mention it once and move on to "just know how to use your gear" in the end.
But really, if people are so put off by the acronym why are they engaging in discussion in the first place?
Really its only super controversial on the internet. Even TS&M's husband thinks I'm pretty ordinary in real life.
I could understand if the DIR answer was sprouting up all over the place in the "I want a pony bottle" threads, but even most of the die-hards mention it once and move on to "just know how to use your gear" in the end.
Soggy
Contributor
Green_Manelishi:
No, your drysuit is a Duct tape patched Viking, last I knew
While there may be many controversial things throughout the history of DIR with its beginnings, its spokespeople and in defining what it means to actually be a DIR diver, I think that perpetuating the ongoing controversy surrounding the actual DIR label and what it stands for is rather silly.
As in all disciplines, you wind up with "terms of art". These are terms that start out being used in certain ways and ultimately become a term used in a less literal sense to describe something. Today DIR is simply a label and though it actually stands for "doing it right" when people ask if you are a DIR diver there is no implication intended by someone that if you are not a DIR diver that you are doing it wrong.
There are many terms that over the years have simply drifted from their literal meanings and implications to simply being a label. Some people will cling to a term's origin and can't seem to move forward and accept that a term will evolve and that the use of it no longer has the intent of its original definition.
I believe that the term DIR has evolved past its origins with whatever GI3 had in mind when he coined the term. I won't go into what I think his intent was then because I believe it to be irrelevant going forward.
When people use the label DIR today they are referring to a particular style and philosophy of diving and most likely aren't thinking about the actual words that each of the letters stand for or their implication if used in the negative such as in the phrase "not DIR". I do not see "not DIR" meaning that you are "not doing it right". I see it as meaning that you are "not diving in the style referred to as DIR".
I don't think that it really matters what the letters stand for at this point in time. To cling to that literal interpretation is to get hung up on "the letter of the law" instead of interpretting "the spirit of the law". The intent of the person using the term is more important to me in understanding its context. If I'm not sure of the intent, I can ask.
Christian
As in all disciplines, you wind up with "terms of art". These are terms that start out being used in certain ways and ultimately become a term used in a less literal sense to describe something. Today DIR is simply a label and though it actually stands for "doing it right" when people ask if you are a DIR diver there is no implication intended by someone that if you are not a DIR diver that you are doing it wrong.
There are many terms that over the years have simply drifted from their literal meanings and implications to simply being a label. Some people will cling to a term's origin and can't seem to move forward and accept that a term will evolve and that the use of it no longer has the intent of its original definition.
I believe that the term DIR has evolved past its origins with whatever GI3 had in mind when he coined the term. I won't go into what I think his intent was then because I believe it to be irrelevant going forward.
When people use the label DIR today they are referring to a particular style and philosophy of diving and most likely aren't thinking about the actual words that each of the letters stand for or their implication if used in the negative such as in the phrase "not DIR". I do not see "not DIR" meaning that you are "not doing it right". I see it as meaning that you are "not diving in the style referred to as DIR".
I don't think that it really matters what the letters stand for at this point in time. To cling to that literal interpretation is to get hung up on "the letter of the law" instead of interpretting "the spirit of the law". The intent of the person using the term is more important to me in understanding its context. If I'm not sure of the intent, I can ask.
Christian
Green_Manelishi
Contributor
Soggy:No, your drysuit is a Duct tape patched Viking, last I knew
Too shay !!! Truth be told though the duct tape is not hiding any holes (it reinforced the latex for working around traps) but it is looking a wee bit frayed about the edges !!!
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