Why I won't dive with you.

[Knight]

I survived many years of diving with stoners in the Caribbean.
My own personal belief is that alcohol and cigarettes will get you first..

Cat, coming from netherland (near amsterdam) smoking the buds before going on dive is pretty much a big no no, the thc is so strong and potent it would make you go down to bottom and just want to stay and chill (which is ok) but diving around it can really play tricks on you, now after the dive that's a different story

Always descending,
c.h.

 

[Darnold9999]

I'm going to totally disagree with you on the part "Your Buddy is just a supply of air and one I prefer not to rely on" I can not stress how important your buddy is uw, alot of you seem to dive with all types of new people and groups, etc. this is fun but also can get you killed real quick, when I sport dive in netherlands it's with friends we know each other like family we know our hand signs like we do the ABC's and we know what's up with each other and if one is possibly in dis-stress we know 10x faster then a new person or if we was in a new group, if there was a sudden accident while uw your buddy is there to save your butt, and your relying on your buddy to do this if you can't make it back uptop, regardless if you have air or not it's always thankful thought to know you have friends in the water that would risk there life for yours and you the same.

Always descending,
c.h.

Thats OK you probably wouldn't dive with me anyway. I prefer to rely on myself, that way I am only occasionally disappointed.

Not to argue, but I am starting to wonder about all this buddy saving your butt stuff. How many times does it happen - I have yet to see it or be in a situation where I have had to rely on a buddy. The one time I got myself into a jam my buddy sat back and watched (the appropriate response) I would have had to rescue two people if she had followed me. Another situation I witnessed, the buddy was nowhere to be found - my buddy did the rescue which should not have been necessary at all.

Not to be down on buddy diving as it does save lives, but it seems to be overdone. i.e. you will die a horrible death if you don't dive with a buddy that never leaves your hip, knows your every signal and gesture, and you follow the dive plan to the letter. Amen

The mathematicion in me wonders what the corelation truly is. Is buddy diving really that much safer - there is no question it is safer the question is how much safer? i.e. in 100,000 "recreation" dives with an "average" buddy how many accidents with a poor outcome are there. Then how many diving solo, and then how many with a DIR type buddy. Holding all other variables constant. Type of dive level of skill etc.

My intuition tells me that the number is very low in all three cases and the type of dive, the dive environment and the experience level has much stronger impact on the number than the buddy factor. Has anyone ever done research on this?

Very difficult question to answer as there are a large number of variables to deal with, but I still wonder.

 

[Knight]

Thats OK you probably wouldn't dive with me anyway. I prefer to rely on myself, that way I am only occasionally disappointed.

Not to argue, but I am starting to wonder about all this buddy saving your butt stuff. How many times does it happen - I have yet to see it or be in a situation where I have had to rely on a buddy. The one time I got myself into a jam my buddy sat back and watched (the appropriate response) I would have had to rescue two people if she had followed me. Another situation I witnessed, the buddy was nowhere to be found - my buddy did the rescue which should not have been necessary at all.

Not to be down on buddy diving as it does save lives, but it seems to be overdone. i.e. you will die a horrible death if you don't dive with a buddy that never leaves your hip, knows your every signal and gesture, and you follow the dive plan to the letter. Amen
.

Wow nice response diver! Maybe if we have a few beers and hang out and got to know we then could have a few nice dives together you can knock on wood for not having yet to see or be in a situation were your buddy will have to save your butt, but let me restasure you that *if* it does happen you will owe your buddy a keg and a prayer for life now I will speak on the commercial diving end of things, your buddy or what we call "backup buddies" are the most valueable tools when working, if something happens to you, there is only one person that can save you and that being your work buddy or the backup diver (backup buddy) and it's the nicest feeling in the world to know that they are there, but also you have a good point that sometimes you must rely on you and only you to get out of situations. Good diving my friend!

Always descending,
c.h.

 

[SangP]

Darnold9999,

I know that accidents don't happen often but when they do it just takes one. Are you willing to bet your life that you'll never encounter a situation where you won't be able to handle alone?

Having a reliable buddy just reduces the risk but never negates it. Basically this thread is about risk reduction and by having a more reliable buddy as opposed to having one that you'll be better off without.

If for nothing, having a reliable buddy equals peace of mind, I'm all for that.

SangP

 

[SDAnderson]

1. This dive is beyond the limits of your training and experience.
2. This dive is beyond the limits of my training and experience.
3. You aren't careful and I don't want to be around when you die.
4. You aren't looking for a buddy, you're looking for a baby sitter.
5. Where the heck did you run off to on our last dive?
6. Okay, once in awhile.
7. Your gear is in such bad shape the gleaners wouldn't salvage it.

 

[Darnold9999]

Darnold9999,

I know that accidents don't happen often but when they do it just takes one. Are you willing to bet your life that you'll never encounter a situation where you won't be able to handle alone?

Having a reliable buddy just reduces the risk but never negates it. Basically this thread is about risk reduction and by having a more reliable buddy as opposed to having one that you'll be better off without.

If for nothing, having a reliable buddy equals peace of mind, I'm all for that.

SangP

Short answer - yes I am willing to take that risk, but I would like to know what that risk actually is.

Long answer, yes but as with all the other risks I take in my life I want to have all the facts when I evaluate the risk. At the moment I really don't have any facts. All I have is the recommended practice in a sport that is quite new and has evolved quite significantly since I started. My first 50 or so dives were without an octo and that was considered normal and safe practice at the time. Things change, I want to know the reasons and the evidence - the fact that everyone does it or says that you should really doesn't mean much to me.

I don't see any research or statistics to back up the position that diving with a buddy is significantly safer than not. I don't disagree that it is safer, I just doubt that it is significantly safer once you get beyond a certain skill/experience level. My arguement is that other factors are way more significant in predicting accidents than buddy/solo, but this also is not based on any hard evidence, just intuition.

I take all sorts of risks that I could mitigate - I choose not to for various reasons. We all do. We perform a calculus re risk vs reward - not diving at all would be far safer than diving. Am I willing to take that risk - you bet, the rewards are worth the risk. Will I dive solo, yes, I think the rewards are worth the risks. I know what the rewards are, but I don't really know what the risks are in a quantifiable way. Don't think they are as great as they are made out to be, but really don't know.

Common sense tells you that buddy diving is safer than solo diving. No question, no doubt, and my common sense tells me to dive with a buddy unless I have a good reason not to, so I almost always dive with a buddy. If nothing else it can be more fun.

However on a completely different topic, I always dive as if I was not able to rely on them. If I can, that is a bonus but I feel much safer diving thinking that I need to rely on myself first - the buddy is just an added bonus that may or may not make a difference if it hits the fan. Does not mean that I won't be there if the person I am diving with is in trouble, just means that I will not assume they will be there for me. My view is that this makes me a safer diver YMMV.

Knight - if you ever get to the PNW we will have a beer and maybe go diving. I think I actually am a good buddy to dive with, but that may just be in my own mind. On the commercial front, you are diving well beyond rec limits as a commercial diver. Very risky dives so that the risk of an accident becomes quite significant and having a backup diver does in fact mitigate the risks significantly. As I said in my initial post - I will pass on those dives.

I do know that taking pictures makes me less aware of what is going on around me - still pay attention, but less. Means some will not dive with me. Their choice.

 

[Cacia]

hey...I will dive with you.

 

[dherbman]

I don't see any research or statistics to back up the position that diving with a buddy is significantly safer than not.

Have you ever noticed the lack of eye witness incident accounts? It seems to me that most incidents occur when diving solo or out of proper buddy contact. What are your thoughts on that?

 

[SangP]

Diving is dynamic activity where you expose youself to a situation where anything can happen. There is no mathmatical variable or formular that you can effectively evaluate risk.

I strongly believe in Murphy's law and as experienced as you are, you can still encounter a situation where you wou't be able to handle alone.

I don't intend to dive solo ever, I value my life and the resulting suffering of my family too much to ever want to expose myself to any kind of unnecessary risk.

I will take caculated risks but only those that I actually control.

SangP

 

[Diver Dennis]

There may well be situations that, as a solo diver I might not be able to handle. Will my buddy be able to handle it, can I count on him or her? I don't have a regular buddy. Where I dive there are not many if any entanglement hazards. Those are the ones that can get you.

My regs are in for a check up right now. Fourth time this year, I get them checked and serviced if necessary before every trip. I have redundancy. The DMs know my plan and that I keep my maximum time to 60 minutes. Everything covered? As much as possible.

I'm still more worried about getting to the dive site alive.