Why I have decided to stop shopping for ANYTHING at the LDS

[PhotoTJ]

Let me interject and point out that you may want to check out the Scubatoys web site before you make that claim again.

I'm not sure about Leisurepro.. I dunno if they have a compressor, but they certainly do have a commercial storefront in Manhattan with fixtures and the whole bit.

If they are truely running both, then obviously the expense would be more. But if it is just an online operation, they can't and won't have the same expense. I consider ScubaToys an LDS with an exceptional online set up. They, and not LP are the best direction for the future. Still not sure about the fills situation, though. They only have the one store, and both coastd are not goning to frive there for fills and/or rental.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I'm sick of the scare tactics. First certain LDS' try the "I'm not making any money off of this" trip. Then they try the loyalty guilt trip. Now it's the "Where are you going to get your fills" trip. Give me a break. I know 5 different people with filling/mixing stations in their garages. I also know many firestations with PSD teams to get fills. You could close down every store in my area and I would still get my gas.

Why can we not have a civil conversation about LDS' without having to resort to scare tactics to get people to come into the stores? I've bought quite a bit through my LDS' (about 85% of my gear), because they are good LDS' and I like going to them. If I was in a town that had nothing but a crummy lowlife LDS owner that tries every scare tactic/lowly method in the book to get me in the store, I would have no problems letting them go out of buisness. Even if it would "gasp" mean I would have to find air fills elsewhere.

Scare tactics/guilt trips wouldn't be neccesary if buisness models were changed. I have 2 different stores in my area that I won't step foot into because of these various tactics to get people into their store. Their compressors can go bye-bye and I wouldn't blink an eye. If LDS owners are going to try to use scare tactics, maybe they should keep repeating one that would actually have some impact. Reading 8x's in this thread "You better think where you are going to get airfills" has done nothing but make me think of how I could (successfully) deal without a local dive store.

Matt

Excuse me Matt ... but in no way am I trying to scare/guilt anyone. I asked a legitimate question ... one that deserves consideration.

If your LDS goes out of business, where will you get your tanks filled? Given that this is one of the primary services offered by your LDS ... e.g. fills, products, and education ... I think that if you are going to advocate the elimination of LDS's, you need to consider the alternatives in all three areas.

You may have alternatives ... in fact, so do I ... but the majority of folks who dive don't ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Corigan]

Excuse me Matt ... but in no way am I trying to scare/guilt anyone. I asked a legitimate question ... one that deserves consideration.

I appologize if I misread/misinterpruted your intentions. Easy to do online.

If your LDS goes out of business, where will you get your tanks filled? Given that this is one of the primary services offered by your LDS ... e.g. fills, products, and education ... I think that if you are going to advocate the elimination of LDS's, you need to consider the alternatives in all three areas.

Would you care to answer the question?

I already did in my original post about the scare tactics. I would get my fills from one of the 5 filling stations that are in garages around me, or from the local fire departments PSD team. I am also one who has been looking into building my own fill station in my house due to convience. Not convience in such that It is easier. Yes I know running a compressor, filling station is a ton of work. I would just rather have me be doing the work as that is the type of person I am. I like being involved in the process every step of the way, that way I know it was done properly.

I also am not advocating the elimination of LDS'. I buy most of my gear locally from an LDS. An LDS that I feel has a proper buisness model and doesn't make me feel like I'm getting gouge, cheated, or unwanted. I think LDS' definately have their place, and I would like to see them thrive. I think in order to do so though, the ones with the buisness models that aren't working (guilt trips, insane markup, scare tactics) need to get with the program. Some of the dive shop owners around me are such dinosaurs that they are still doing things the same way they did 20 years ago. Then they sit around and wonder why nobody is in their shop and they are scaping pennies together to get buy. Then when somebody comes in to buy something from them they make the markup insane to compensate for no sales. Then if you don't buy it from them they start laying the guilt trip and scare tactics on you. It's really uncalled for, and most people won't put up with being treated that way. I know I don't go into a shop to spend my hard earned money and get abuse for it. Unfortunately some shops in my area are exactly that way and I have recieved the same treatment. I am counting the days till their out of buisness sale.

Matt

 

[in_cavediver]

Okay, I thought the basic premise is that fills are being done at a loss, the more fills the bigger the loss. In that case wouldn't Fill Express just run out cash faster in a high volume location?

Well, not quite. Its the economy of scale. Some items are consumable strickly by the volume of gas filtered. Other items are by hours and others are 1 time costs. The more fills you do, the smaller the addition needs to be to cover 1 time costs (compressor itself, banks etc). The more fills, the larger the compressor and hence less hours per cf and less cost (Oil, overhauls, inspections etc). The last item would be the same or nearly so if it was dependent only on cf of gas like the filters. Even this though, larger filters are cheaper than smaller filters on the total cf capactiy vs cost.

 

[cerich]

this is turning into a waste of time. Those who feel that all a LDS does is rip folks off. Those that feel a tank of air is worth more(me among them) and those the seem to feel that a shop makes money at $3 a fill (sorry, no way).

People are going to decide where to spend their money. All I hope is that people don't assume that the LDS will rip them off and not even give them a chance to compete. If you do give them a chance and they won't, then go elsewhere, if they can or come close plus give a value added service like knowledge, pool to play or whatever please support the LDS. We do need them despertly. If all the LDS go away there will be less divers to buy anywhere including online, then less makers of scuba gear which will lead to less choice and higher prices.

Consider that next time you "add to shopping cart", wait a min and call a couple LDS and just say "I'm about to buy "XYZ" online for XX dollars from ABC online, can you match or come close?" If they harass you too bad for them, I think you'll find more and mores LDS are willing to do what they can now, even if 1 year ago they were not willing at all.

 

[cornfed]

this is turning into a waste of time.

Your choice of verb tense implies that you think there may still be some value. Personally, I think it was a waste from post one. Had the OP placed the thread in the appropriate regional section and given the shop's name he could have helped people in that area decide which shops are worth visiting. Instead he chose to open a can of worms.

 

[lord1234]

this has lost the whole point of my original thread...mods can we just close this thread? take it to another thread please...make a topic about "Air fills are hard to find" or some such...

 

[H2Andy]

Instead he choose to opened a can of worms.

speaking of interesting verb tense usage... :14:

 

[cornfed]

this has lost the whole point of my original thread...

Then why the hell did you post it here instead of the W&C section? You do know what a troll is don't you?!

 

[ScubaThor]

Then if you don't buy it from them they start laying the guilt trip and scare tactics on you. It's really uncalled for, and most people won't put up with being treated that way. I know I don't go into a shop to spend my hard earned money and get abuse for it. Unfortunately some shops in my area are exactly that way and I have recieved the same treatment. I am counting the days till their out of buisness sale.

Matt

I don't know if I'd go quite as far as saying that it would be good for such shops to go out of business, but I do think that a dive shop is no place for scare tactics. What makes things really bad is when you are a new diver and don't know any better...all you want to do is get certified and get into a sport that is fascinating as hell...and the the LDS will take advantage of you being a newb and immediately try to sell you the most high-end reg and BC.
I got my certification through my LDS and splashed a few items purchased here and there, but ultimately bought my big-ticket stuff online. I just can't fathom paying double or triple the price, and being guilt-tripped into doing so. Too bad, because it would have been nice to have a local place with a "community" feel.