Why I have decided to stop shopping for ANYTHING at the LDS

[Scuba]

I have this problem all the time with customers that come in after a charter or dive saying they only got 2800 psi in 3000 tank, even with a sign on the door when leaving and another on the compressor shed saying to check your tanks before leaving as well as your mix. I even have a guage ready for use, guess what only 10% of them do and I remember my OW instructor telling me to check my tanks everytime I pick them up.

Funniest thing is most people bring back the tanks with 700 - 1000 psi in them still on average and still feel the need to make the complaint.

Check your tanks before leaving the dive store it will make yours and your LDS life more easier.

While double checking is certainly good advice, good practice for air and highly recommended for mix, the point I was trying to make is that a tank left for a day or longer for an air fill should be fully ready for pickup when they said it would be ready. Ready, as in topped off. Repeatedly specified, I least to my understanding. And saying it is when it's not, is a big no no. Basically, I got tired of having to get on their case about this all the time. Plus other issues. I shouldn't have to constantly push them to do the job they agreed to do on something so basic and simple. And how much gas one leaves in the tank after the dive is totally irrelevant. I don't think they would like it if I always tried to short them on payment, and they had to go out of their way to get full payment out of me all the time.

It is entirely possible they felt I didn't sufficiently support them, since I recall the bright red carpet they rolled out just for me in the beginning. Anyways, business transactions that are not mutually beneficial to the needs of both parties are unlikely to last.

 

[toodive4]

Do you really think you need a dive shop to get compressed air?

95% is used loosely but is probably more like a safe bet then a known fact... I'll give you that one. Perhaps I could do a study to prove it... shouldn't be difficult. You could likely even do it yourself. Call your LDS for something than look online. Call 10 LDS's than look on line... you'll prove it to yourself without any help from me at all... Happy Diving

Yes, goods are marked up significantly by all retailers - that is the nature of the beast. There is a difference however, when you are talking about high up front costs. High up front costs are a disincentive in a cost-concious world of Wal-marts and Costcos. High volume and lower margins per item are the future. Someone earlier made the comparison to going for a round of golf - that is the key. One barely notices the incremental costs associated with their activity when compared to up front costs of gear in the thousands. If air fills cost more, ok.

A couple of shore dives still cost less than a golf outing. I dive mostly off boats and that is already an expensive proposition. Do you really think I am going to cringe if the price of air goes up a few bucks for something I am already spending a hundred bucks on? The most successful dive shop I know in Australia is focused solely on running their boats, doing air fills, and renting gear. There carry a minimum of inventory for retail and operate in a retail capacity primarily as a place to pick up a spare or a last-minute item. That works! That model won't work for every shop, but if you are relying on gear, you will not make it in the future.

 

[Firefyter]

let us see 40(fills) X 80 cu ft=3200cu ft. That is exactly what the BAUER packaging states the filter will process. Correct me if I'm wrong but 40 X 80=3200.

That may be what the filter states, but I'm telling you from experience that if the intake is kept clean, the filters will last a LOT longer than that.

Now to some more advanced math as in ratio and proportion. When I started diving in 1970 an air fill was $3.00. Yes, three USD green reserve notes. I paid 12.5cents per gallon on gasoline back then. Of course I live right next to where they make it.
So 12.5/300=215/X. X=$51.60 Yes folks an air fill would be $51.60..

You "advanced" math only works with faulty logic. As H2Andy plainly stated above, you can't compare apples to oranges. Nice try.

I think you need to open a dive store and show everybody how it's done. You won't need to feed the compressor anything but oil, filters, electricity, and annual service.
Stay wet;
Bill

I don't need to open a dive store, and besides, if I did, I have plenty of successful models to show me how it works. We're starting to see more and more why there are so many EX Dive store owners though. With math skills and accounting practices like this, it's easy to see why they fold.

Plus, as I've already told you, I fill my own tanks. I'm fully aware of the costs, and it's nowhere near what you're making it out to be.

 

[Scuba]

Does anyone here really believe dive shops are loosing $35 to $45 a fill? C'mon guys, lets get real, and not compound the creditbility problems already in existence. Go ahead and charge $40 to $50 a fill. Just don't complain when you loose most of your remaining customers.

 

[android]

There's several problems with LDSs setting up any kind of online presence.

First, if there's only one shop in town, it probably only sells ScubaPro. Thus, they'd have nothing to sell on the internet.

Second, they can't compete on the internet because they'd have to discount. This means that customers that walked into the store would want the same price.

Third, they'd no longer be able to haughtily proclaim how you're going to kill yourself buying life support gear on the internet since they'd be selling it too.

 

[serambin]

Today, out of curiosity over this thread, I spoke with an LDS about how he views the situation. First I was surprised to find that he sees the backbone of his business as stock sales. That is, the sale of equipment. I would have thought that he would make most of his money from training.

He said only 33% of people certified as OW divers ever take an additional course and that about the same percentage of those,take advanced courses.

I asked about profit made on trips etc. He said there was not much because the boat rental and the cost of his going on the trip took a big bit out of the gross. He agreed that the key to a successful store was repeat business and that customer loyalty brought in the new divers.

To my mind, once a diver buys a reg, BC, tank, etc., how much repeat spending is likely to happen?

 

[friscuba]

Rough guess on a site like LP... $10,000 initial cost to build the web site and set up the back end, $500 in dedicated hosting per month, $1000/year for website maintenance, $2000 per redesign, $2000/year for the enterprise SSL certificate, etc etc.

This is not insignificant money to a single shop.

I see from your profile that your occupation is in IT support. You'd know better than I, but does this stuff really cost that much these days? I'm having a tought time finding anyone that won't offer complete e-commerce hosting and design packages for more than $100-$150 a month and a significantly smaller design fee. It would be curious to hear form the Scubatoys guy (who's shop is a brick and mortar store that's expanded into online sales) if he spent anywhere near that in setting up his online program. The Cisco article sure made it sound like that wasn't the case.

later,

 

[jonnythan]

I see from your profile that your occupation is in IT support. You'd know better than I, but does this stuff really cost that much these days? I'm having a tought time finding anyone that won't offer complete e-commerce hosting and design packages for more than $100-$150 a month and a significantly smaller design fee. It would be curious to hear form the Scubatoys guy (who's shop is a brick and mortar store that's expanded into online sales) if he spent anywhere near that in setting up his online program. The Cisco article sure made it sound like that wasn't the case.

later,

There's a big difference between your typical super low-volume Yahoo store or your buddy down the block selling odds and ends out of his garage and a site like Leisurepro. The high encryption SSL certificates for the site are thousands per year alone.

The Wall Street Journal recently redesigned its website for the hefty sum of $28 million. Obviously there's a huge difference between thw WSJ and LP, but LP surely has a couple of dedicated servers, and the site sure as heck wasn't created by some buddy in a day or two for $100. A few hundred a month for hosting dedicated servers and enough bandwidth for all the visitors they get is typical. Add in all those custom graphics and everything else and a professional (or two) spent a significant portion of time on this. It's a well done web site that cost a lot more than a couple hundred dollars.

 

[TCDiver1]

Plus, as I've already told you, I fill my own tanks. I'm fully aware of the costs, and it's nowhere near what you're making it out to be.

I suspect since you're a firefighter, you're getting your fills from the station compressor used to fill department airpacks. If so, what is your department paying for, amortized purchase cost, annual service costs, $/KWH, additional insurance premiums, staff time spent filling, etc? You would need to have a feel for those types of costs to truly begin to realise the total cost of an airfill. Maybe you are paying/approving all costs related to running that compressor. If you are, i would be interested in knowing what the costs are to own and operate that compressor. I'm sure others would be also.

A comment on this whole overhead debate. To be meaningful you have to tie overhead to total revenue or some other measurable variation of the revenue stream being generated by the business.

I'm sure its right to say ScubaToys costs went up when they added an internet store. But i'm just as sure that their overhead cost, as a percentage of revenue, went down significantly. So they are paying more to run both "bricks & mortar" and "internet" stores but they are generating significantly more revenue and are probably making a greater profit in doing so. That is the whole point and is why its generally a better model than the classic LDS by itself.

Overhead, as a percentage of revenue, is likely much higher for your average LDS without an internet component. The long and the short of it is, the LDS needs to charge a greater markup on equipment, etc to stay in business or find another way to make up the difference.

I for one am glad i'm not in the LDS business. Its a dog eat dog world out there today and the LDS is wearing milkbone underwear.

 

[redacted]

Does anyone here really believe dive shops are loosing $35 to $45 a fill? C'mon guys, lets get real, and not compound the creditbility problems already in existence. Go ahead and charge $40 to $50 a fill. Just don't complain when you loose most of your remaining customers.

Heck, he could probably retire and live high on the hog just on the money he would save by not pumping any air at a $35 to $45 dollar loss per fill. At only 10 fills a day thats at least $350 in the bank. For a busier shop we're looking at over $1000 per day.

I think I like this DS math.