Why does an LDS push newbies away from BP/WINGS?

[Bob3]

I have a Seatec wing (identical to the one they make today) that was made around 1972. I had an aluminum backpack/plate from 1965, came from my first set of gear I bought from Sears & Roebuck, (made by Nemrod).
Backplates & wings are FAR from a new invention.
I set one of the neighbors up with a new back inflate BC, it has a wing that you can yank right off the backpack & use on a plate if you want to. The local shops here in Sacramento do not have a problem with wings.
Heck, they even weight the students properly.
Courses are taught through NAUI and PADI.

 

[Compressor]

I teach my students the adva/disadv of BP/Wings as well as standard BCs. I let them decide.

I am with NAUI, SDI, TDI and former (SSI). Each students needs equipment that fits well and is comfortable and safe.

Thats the advantage of an independant instructor versus some LDS.

 

[paulwlee]

I don't see what all the big deal is about.
BP/wing is just another BC.
Teaching someone in a BP/wing would be the same, and there will only be a few minor differences in how to do things. Of course, the instructor will have to be familiar with the setup, which may explain why some stores don't allow students to take OW in one. I found that there are many instructors out there who teach students in BP/wings. (Some exclusively so.)

BTW, I highly doubt that stores advising students away from BP/wings do it mostly because of gear sales. There are many people who (correctly) associate BP/wings with technical diving and therefore automatically assume (incorrectly) that it has no place with a new diver.

 

[victoriawtx]

it mostly comes down to money with the LDSs. And, some shops have a basic lack of information about BP/Ws.

Many shop employees, both locally and elsewhere, have told me that BP/Ws are too heavy for women, or are too complicated for women to handle. I usually don't return to those shops.

I assume that their ignorance could be corrected with a bit of education. We can only hope.

 

[jonnythan]

The guys at the dive shops have always existed within the confines of the mainstream SCUBA industry. Things improve because the big name manufacturers say they do. The dive shop guys are simply unaware that a bp/wing may be a better system, that's how it works. It's no surprise that they're against them.

 

[bwerb]

Please let us inquiring minds know a little bit more about your scuba background.

You claim to be an instructor and yet repeatedly make blatantly outrageous claims which anyone who actually read the standards of practice for their agency would know.

So...Instructor Level, agency and certification numbers please.

Someone who is appearing online as an industry professional should have no problem with clearly outlining what their instructorship is in, especially considering the level of expertise and (reading between the lines) years of experience you claim to have.

Let's hear it.

 

[Don Burke]

ClassAction once bubbled... I went to my LDS recently. When tried to sell me a BC, I (politely) explained that I got a really good deal on the BP/wings. They looked at me like I was crazy. They said it was "strictly for tech" diving and that I should be in a regular BC.

My impressions:

(1) They simply were pissed off that I didn't buy from them (obvious).

(2) Even though they sell the same BP/wings, they STILL push all newbies into a jacket BC. My guess is that they want to sell you the jacket, then convince you to "upgrade" into the BP/wings, which gives them two sales.

Any guidance?

Herding students is just a little bit easier with a jacket BCD, so the shops like to use them. That means they attract employees who use the jackets.

The absolute top of the line BP and wing setups cost about the same as a mid-range jacket BCD. If you beat the harness to death, all they can sell you is a few feet of web. If you beat the wing to death, you can probably fix it or you can replace it for no more than about $300. It's hard to make a steady income that way.

I can see how it would be a pain in the butt to rent backplates. The jackets are easier to adjust to each user. I suppose you could put some adjustment scheme in the harnesses, however, that presents problems of it's own.

The jackets feel so much better in the showroom that they are easier to sell to a new diver. The sale happens in the showroom, not in the water.

In short, it's about the Benjamins.

 

[mgri]

Maybe it's because I'm a novice diver but could someone explain to me how a BP/w could be viewed as to complicated for OW. Does the metal backplate intimidate people?

BP/w are the most uncomplicated, easiest to get out of rig around. Compare a BP/w to a vest style BC with cummerbund and snap buckle, chest strap, and integrated weight system. Let's see one quick release buckle compared to all that, which do you think would be easier to get out of? If the crotch strap is to much task loading then make them leave it off during OW, then the BP/w would be as easy to get off as a weight belt. One release, pull out your arms and that's it.

It also can't be because it's a back inflate because there are plenty of back inflate BCs out there.

I really dont understand some of the points around here

Mark

 

[mgri]

Ok, done with my rant...

To the question at hand, if it were me I would find another dive shop.

I most be in the minority because I actually got talked into a BP/w by my LDS, Wateree Dive Center.

After reading these boards and knowing that I wanted a back inflate for it's trim characteristics, I went to my LDS intent on ordering a dive rite transpak. At the time I kind of was more interested in a BP/w but I didn't want to be labeled as a tech wanna be.

When I told one of the owners that I wanted to order one and after telling him why, long story short, he recommended a BP/w. He sold me a OMS alu backplate super cheap and all the webbing and hardware. I asked him if he could order a Qxchecq wing for me and he told me flat out I could get a better deal online. He basically throw away what would have probably been a decent mark up for maybe a ten or twenty dollar net sale.

Of course, know I go out of my way to spend money there.

So, to summarize, I would find another LDS.

 

[PacNWdiver]

Hi Class,

Getting to your question, it sounds to me like the fellow that helped you at the shop wasn't trying real hard. My first question to folks is "What type of diving are you planning on?" Folks headed to the tropics on a once a year vacation and may take a charter out once during their stay, not sure a BP and Wing is the right choice for them (unless that's what they are asking for).

Likewise, a customer who doesn't know what kind of diving they want to do. They want to try diving just to see if they like it or are taking a class with some friends, just for fun. Again, not sure a BP and wing is the right set up here.

Now, the VAST majority of divers in the world fall into these two catagories. So, in the fellow that was trying to help you should be cut a little slack.

As far as cost, Wings run about $300, BP about $100, harness and hardware about $50. You can by a pretty nice weight integrated BC for about $300. Value is another factor when I help customers, but it's not the first question I ask.

John