And not the fake ones you posted in your profile. Sadly, I don't believe that they will check out.
Why does an LDS push newbies away from BP/WINGS?
- Thread starter ClassAction
- Start date
Please register or login
Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.
Benefits of registering include
- Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
- A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
- You can make this box go away
And not the fake ones you posted in your profile. Sadly, I don't believe that they will check out.
RichLockyer
Guest
Obviously guessing.
More speculation drawn from lack of experience.
Why would the students need to cut their crotch straps?
I do 90% of my dives from a 22' Whaler or Avon. Every dive is don/doff in water. I do it with no problem, and without cutting my rig.
That's in a drysuit with 7ft hose and bungeed backup reg.
Never strangled myself either.
What shop do you teach for?
RichLockyer
Guest
Your history is a little off there, both in dates and order of occurrance.
My buddy certified in 1978, using a horsecollar.
It WAS orally inflated at depth, and worked fine as a BC.
He went directly to a Seatek wing attached to the same Aqua Lung ABS backpack. Jackets didn't show up for a few more years.
He bought his first jacket BC in 2001, but is moving back to the wing.
"Back in the 1960s" the horsecollar was either not available, or rarely used.
A couple of misconceptions here...
First, usint the most expensive bp/wing is less expemsive than the cheapest bc for student rentals. Why? Because with jackets...in order to fit 6 students you need to own 20 jackets because you might have 6 big students or six little ones. With a bp and harness you can strap it on any one so you only need one for as many sets as you will have students.
I teach PADI OW classes to students wearing bp/wings all the time and so do others.
BIG misconception...
Sales do have something to do with it. When you dump $18000 to get a scubapro dealership and they require you to sell huge minimum volumes anualy, you must sell what they make.
Ignorance also plays a role though.
When evaluating the value of the bp/wing I really think you should look at the whole configuration. That's when they really shine.
First, usint the most expensive bp/wing is less expemsive than the cheapest bc for student rentals. Why? Because with jackets...in order to fit 6 students you need to own 20 jackets because you might have 6 big students or six little ones. With a bp and harness you can strap it on any one so you only need one for as many sets as you will have students.
I teach PADI OW classes to students wearing bp/wings all the time and so do others.
BIG misconception...
Sales do have something to do with it. When you dump $18000 to get a scubapro dealership and they require you to sell huge minimum volumes anualy, you must sell what they make.
Ignorance also plays a role though.
When evaluating the value of the bp/wing I really think you should look at the whole configuration. That's when they really shine.
deepdiverbc
Contributor
Please tell me the technique.
I recently did a boat dive where there was no boat ladder. I had to remove my jacket style BCD in the water to get back in the boat. On land it sort of falls off with help from gravity but in the water with the BCD inflated it was difficult. I ended up unclipping the fastex shoulder buckle which I never do on land and it came off very quickly. After this experience I was considering installing a fastex on one shoulder when I get a BP&W.
Underwater I have heard that some divers flip it over the head.
mgri
Guest
I'll throw my limited experience with a BP/w at you and see if it helps. First because it's a back inflate you don't have to worry about it getting tighter or looser depending on how much air is in it.
Secondly, when setting it up, must people (myself included) set it up with the shoulder straps way to tight. The shoulders straps really should only be tight enough to keep the backplate from tilting or rocking when your are not completely horizontal in the water. The waist strap and especial the crouch strap are what should be kept snug IMO. To tell you how loose my shoulder straps are, when I'm out of the water and with the crouch strap and waist strap nice and snug, I can lean to the left or right and almost cause my shoulder strap to slip off my shoulder.
When you set it up this loose, as soon as you undo the waist buckle and remove the crotch strap, it's as loose as a jacket BC with no air in it. So in the water all you have to is just slide out of it.
Some may not set up their shoulders straps as loose as that, but I found it helped me a lot.
Mark
PacNWdiver
Guest
- Messages
- 60
- Reaction score
- 0
Mike,
Good point on the rental BP and wings. I hadnt considered that
But, I suppose you would have to get a easily adjustable type harness system. I know for me it took a good 5 dives before I got mine dialed in. Not an option for most OW training situations.
Also, I would think students would still need to be familiar with jacket BCs. Since most students will not end up buying BCs and most dive resorts do not rent BP and wings.
I agree sales have something to do with it but each shop negotiates their own purchases with manufactures. Scubapro does throw their weight around a bit, because they are an industry leader. But most shop owners really do try and find the best gear at the best value for their customers. Those that dont, that get a smokin deal on a quantity of crappy no-name reg and try to push them on their customers. Those guys usually dont stay in business long.
John
Good point on the rental BP and wings. I hadnt considered that
But, I suppose you would have to get a easily adjustable type harness system. I know for me it took a good 5 dives before I got mine dialed in. Not an option for most OW training situations.
Also, I would think students would still need to be familiar with jacket BCs. Since most students will not end up buying BCs and most dive resorts do not rent BP and wings.
I agree sales have something to do with it but each shop negotiates their own purchases with manufactures. Scubapro does throw their weight around a bit, because they are an industry leader. But most shop owners really do try and find the best gear at the best value for their customers. Those that dont, that get a smokin deal on a quantity of crappy no-name reg and try to push them on their customers. Those guys usually dont stay in business long.
John
RichLockyer
Guest
Like Mark, my shoulder straps are not as tight as they are adjusted during DIR-F... and the GUE instructors tell you during the class NOT to cut your harness until you've got a few dives on it, so they do expect you to loosen it up. I adjust mine as loose as I possibly can and still be able to reach the top edge of the plate when standing fully suited up.
I tried a fastex on the shoulder strap... two problems. If it's on top, the strap doesn't "flow" over the shoulder... feels like a brick up there. Below the D-ring and it's covered by the backup light. Below the backup light and it's impossible to reach to fasten in the water.
I take the rig off in the water the same as on land... chicken-wing my left arm out and then slip my right arm out like a vest. I will reach over with my right hand and use the D-ring or backup light as a handle to lift the strap over my exhaust valve.
The crotch strap is a non-issue. When gearing up, I reach down behind me and flip it forward, capturing it between my knees, then reach down in front and pull it up.
A valid point but with a little practice you'd be surprised at how fast you can get at getting students set up. We also take the time in class to get students weighted right and balanced for horizontal trim so any needed harness adjustments fit right in the process. The bp/wind also makes it a little easier to get students horizontal so time invested in one place saves some time someplace else. IME, even a harness that isn't adjusted perfectly will be more stable and streamline for a student than a bc.
I agree that students will need to be familiar with a standard bc also. However I don't spend too much time on a configuration that I don't think works well just because so many people use it. The fact that most rentals are jackets is a better argument for buying a wing than it is for practicing in a jacket, IMO. Actually the vast majority of my students who buy equipment choose a bp/wing over a BC. I don't think a single student of mine who's tried both has picked a jacket in the last two years.
Again I agree but the manufacturers make it hard. Some even try to make you stock and display the whole line. That's great but what if all they have that you want to carry is one or two regs? As you can tell I can't do a very good job of selling a jacket. LOL The last one I had in the shop sat there for two years. eventually some one baught it dispite what I had to say about it. They do what they can to make their line an all or nothing proposition. The result is that often finding the best gear/value for your customer means finding a very few lines that represent the best compromise.
I use this technique with doubles. It would also work with singles.
1. Inflate wing;
2. Disconnect drysuit inflator.
3. After making sure that primary is clipped off, remove loop from behind neck;
4. Remove bungeed backup
5. Turn wrist mount gauges to the inside of arm and wrist
6. Lean back
7. Chicken wing left hand through strap
8. Remove the rest of the rig.
My straps are adjusted so that I can get my thumb between the strap and my collarbone when I'm wearing the suit.
Similar threads
