Why does an LDS push newbies away from BP/WINGS?

[Northeastwrecks]

Karl_in_Calif once bubbled...


To my knowledge, which admittedly is not infinite, I know of no training agency that certifies new students who have never been certified before, with gear akin to a backplate and wings.

Now, correct me if I am wrong, or draw and quarter me, and hang me on a tree if I have misspoke.

Get out the paring knife.

My LDS is a PADI 5-Star. We'll teach and certify O/W students in a BP&W.

I see no reason to avoid using one for instruction. In particular, doing so complies with PADI guidelines. Its also a nice rig.

For the most part, the staff all use BP&W's. A couple use Dive-Rite TPII's. The rest use BC's.

Telling someone that they must take additional courses in order to use the rig is, IMHO, garbage. There is nothing in those courses that will teach you how to use a BP&W. Instead, you should learn all of the basics during O/W.

 

[hambleto]

I just called the PADI office http://www.padi.com/english/webservices/officecontact/
and spoke to their instruction department. They do not care what kind of BC you train on (back inflation, BP/WING, or jacket) as long as it has a single tank BC.

I then called the NAUI office
http://www.naui.com/Contacts.html
They told me the same. Although the store does have the right to specify what THEY (the store) will and will not train on.

 

[Hallmac]

Karl_in_Calif once bubbled...


To my knowledge, which admittedly is not infinite, I know of no training agency that certifies new students who have never been certified before, with gear akin to a backplate and wings.

Now, correct me if I am wrong, or draw and quarter me, and hang me on a tree if I have misspoke.

Are you talking about providing the equipment or allowing the equipment.

We don't provide bp/w but you can take the course with them if you want. I don't care eithor way. And yes I'm SSI

Hallmac

 

[boomx5]

Karl_in_Calif once bubbled...


Boomx5-in-Sacramento, many years ago, probably before you were born, there was no such thing as a jacket or back-inflation style B/C. ScubaPro had not invented it yet.

Back then, in the 1960s and 1970s, we wore small little backplates of a sort attached with a bracket to our single tank. And we wore "horsecollar" type buoyancy compensators, which mostly gave your buoyancy at the surface, if you orally inflated them, or which gave you instant buoyancy if you pulled the pin on them that activated the CO2 cartridge that was designed to get you out of a pickel in a minute, if you got yourself into one.

not that I need you to. I learned to dive on a jacket style b/c with a CO2 cartridge, and I'm fully aware of the history of the sport. Heck up until a couple of years ago I still had my dads old horse collar b/c that he used to dive with in the 70's. My question was, why the industry flip flop?

 

[Karl_in_Calif]

hambleto once bubbled...

I then called the NAUI office
http://www.naui.com/Contacts.html
They told me the same. Although the store does have the right to specify what THEY (the store) will and will not train on.

Ahhh ... , there you have it! The voice of The Scuba Gods!

Also Sprach Zarathustra!

 

[Hallmac]

ChrisM once bubbled...
Shops push Traditional BCs because:

1. That's what the shop monkey was trained on, and people are resistant to change.

2. For some reason, BPS are viewed as tech/DIR/used by arrogant divers

3. $$$$$$$ Some brands - Zeagle, i.e., there are others I am sure -- have incentives such as giving a free BC to the shop for every ten or so they sell......

I am still surprised to walk into a dive shop in LA and find that they actually carry BPs and wings.

Wow! I smell some frustration here.

actually they provide jackets because they are cheap! Period.

You try and buy equipment for 15 to 30 students. Price 30 backplates and wings at cost and then 30 bottom of the line jackets. Big difference. Even if you tried to get away using half the amount of bp/w and just adjust them for each student during each class twice a week for 3 to 4 weeks you lose because of loss in time. From the shops point of view it is purely money. To the student it is a loss of pool time.

Hallmac

 

[Karl_in_Calif]

ChrisM once bubbled...


Until GUE comes out with its promised OW course, don't think he's teaching any OW courses....

Chris, he posted here and said he is teaching Open Water students for an SSI store and that he is teaching them GUE/DIR concepts as well.

So I do not know if they are all sitting around in their backplates as they learn to doff and don their backplates and harnasses in the open water without cutting the crotch strap with their knives to do it.

I'm guessing here.

 

[MechDiver]

Karl_in_Calif once bubbled...

without cutting the crotch strap with their knives to do it.

I'm guessing here.

I would have thought it'd be easier just to let the crotch strap fall away after undoing the waist strap. Well, what do I know, eh?

 

[ZoCrowes255]

Why you buy something without trying it first? Especially something as personal as scuba gear? Most people have tried various jacket BC's. Try a BP/Wing and then decide if you want to buy it. If the diveshop won't sell you one find a new one that will.

I've tried a BP/Wing as well as many other styles of BCs. I grew up in a dive shop so I have quite an assortment. The BP/Wing is a very nice system. However, I have found nothing about them that makes me want to switch unless I am going to doubles. I dive a Scubapro Knighthawk and in the water could not tell a difference between it and the backplate in terms of how it dives. It is not the be all, end all system that many make it out to be. Is it a good system? Yes it's quite good. Is it the best? That's debatable.

 

[ChrisM]

Chris, he posted here and said he is teaching Open Water students for an SSI store and that he is teaching them GUE/DIR concepts as well.

I don't follow his posts here, so I'll take your word for it. I do know there was a flap a while back re: nonpayment of ssi dues, etc etc, but he had said that he had foresworn actually teaching with SSI, only did it to get gue, not to get too far off topic.....

Wow! I smell some frustration here.

Nope, none at all. And I am not comparing BPs to bottom of theline BCs for teaching. I thought the subject was selling BCs to newbies, not training them on them (although that has become a side topic here).

I agree, it is cheaper to buy a bunch of bottom of the line models for training purposes. I wouldn't expect a shop to rent out a nice new Balance or anything