Why do you dismiss DIR?

[jimholcomb]

How many of you have been on a recreational cattle boat and had the "pleasure" of meeting a newly annointed Instructor or Divemaster that has $10,000 worth of dive shop clipped off to themselves talking about their navy seal days just to watch them crash into the reef when you get in the water. You run into them everywhere - but it doesn't turn you off to the PADI (just an example) philosophy.

DIR has it's share of dumbasses just as any other group. You don't chunk the baby with the bath water.

I'm of the opinion that those that adopt SOME of the principles contained in the DIR philosophy AND understand why are safer than those that don't. For example, a diver who adopts the DIR configuration (for the most part) but still insists on solo diving in a technical environment is still more prepared to handle a problem should it arise than one who hasn't. One who adopts DIR's policy on deep air but does not adopt the configuration in it's entirety is still safer than one who doesn't. One who adopts the DIR philosophy in regards to solo diving and doesn't adopt a damn thing else is safer than one who doesn't (provided your buddy isn't a moron).

Does this clarify anything? It's not a cult - it's an application of ideas.

 

[Lost Yooper]

That was funny, Dell!



Mike

 

[MikeFerrara]

jetblast00,

You just described one of the IANTD couses I teach. You didn't mention one thing that isn't tought by IANTD or NACD for that matter. I'm not saying that any of it is wrong. I am saying that it is not as different as some would have you believe.

The diff. I see is IANTD says here is the long hose contraversy. Here are the diff ways people do it and why. here is how I do it. BTW, breathing the long hose seems to win hands down. The difference is, if you decide to stuff the long hose, you are not called a stroke or worse. Students are permitted (at least by standards) to experiment with configuration. Learning then takes place. GUE, I believe, would not admit you to the class. We do not tell students simply to listen because we are the best and they are not worthy to question. A student who doesn't question is not thinking therefore is not really a student. As a teacher, it seems to me that they cheat students out of a very important part of the learning and development process (discovery). I dive a Hogarthian kit. However I didn't start that way. I had an instructor who suggested improvements guided the the process by giving me things to think about. And now my kit looks as his does. I can also give a real good talk on why I do it that way. There is teaching and there is dictating. There is learning and there is blindly following. I admit that during an 18,000 ft penetration is no time to experiment. During training is, however, a great time to experiment. When a student is pondering his configuration I try to guide the process. I am teaching him/her the thought process. They must understand the subject such that they can make correct decisions on their own. Team planning/management, fitness, personal responsibility and personal training are all stressed in any tech course I have looked at.

 

[Dell Motes]

I hope everyone understands what I wrote.
I know many of the core people at Halcyon, EE and quite a few divers in the WKPP.
Some I knew many years before, some are relatively new/casual acquaintances.
It comes down to this. No matter where you go or what you are dealing with, there will always be people you like, dislike or are indifferent to.
I have had many "friends" come and go in cave diving and diving in general.
It comes down to either you like and respect a person, therefore you have a good interaction with them, or you don't get along and should just part ways or avoid each other.
Look at anything involving Scuba and you will see conflicts abound.

 

[Stone]

Dell,

Looks like you hit the nail on the d**khead.

 

[Lost Yooper]

Hey Mike,

It seems to me that GUE dictates discipline and mastery. The students know this going into it and accept it from the start. I'm sure that any GUE instructor will tell a student looking for personal perferrence to go to IANTD. I'm also sure that GUE instructors welcome questions, but at the end of the day, it's GUE's way or else you're out. Ultimately, it's the students choice who they want to learn from.

Mike

 

[jetblast00]

MF,

I agree with your ideas on learning, I have taken GUE classes and IANTD classes because I want the exposure to multiple ideas so I can come to my own conclusions. The conclusions I have come to say that DIR is the best whole system out there. That being said, I still only take from it what I want. I'm not 100% DIR, and I'm not trying to preach DIR, I appologize if it came accross that way. I'm just stating why and what in DIR ended up being the choice I made for me. I wasn't born with a backplate on, I choose to put it there after classes with several agencies and instructors and lots of personal research. I'm just stating my conclusions, but yes, people should be able to discover these conclusions for themselves.

Let's just say that the partial pressure of DIR in my diving is .8 at sea level

EDIT: BTW, I don't think that IANTD has officialy adopted 'deep stops' in there training programs yet... that concerns me...

 

[MikeFerrara]

jetblast00,

It didn't sound like you were preaching. I enjoy the exchange of views. This is fun. IANTD tables do not include deep stops. However, the text discusses and recommends them. As you know not all deco soft wares include them automatically and there are various methods of adding them manually. I introduce a couple of techniques for generating them to students. I do think IANTD should add reference to models (VPM, RGBM) other than Buillman (I’ll bet I spelled that wrong). I will eventually get a copy of Abyss or the WKPP/GUE program (don’t remember the name). I currently use Voyager, GAP and Vplanner.

 

[Uncle Pug]

Originally posted by MikeFerrara
I am saying that it is not as different as some would have you believe.

GUE, I believe, would not admit you to the class.

Mike,

I believe your description of the lack of difference between GUE training and IANTD training clashes with your description of the difference between GUE training and IANTD training.

 

[MikeFerrara]

UP,
You are correct. I will try to better job of saying what I mean. Let me try again after taking some time to compose it further.

I have it. I was trying to say that a GUE student is not , by default, any better equiped to dive safely.