Why do you dismiss DIR?

[buff]

From George Irvine:
" ... The WKPP is not a closed organization. It is not a closed minded organization. If any of you can show me a better way than DIR and the WKPP team MO, I will adapt those principles TODAY. ..."


a better way than the WKPP team to what? Cave dive. I don't cave dive so why should every point of DIR apply to me? I use what is useful and there are many useful points. But cave diving in Florida is not like ice diving in Minnesota.

I am the same in my Catholisism as I am in my DIR- a buffet user. I pick and chose the the things that are right for me. It angers the Pope and his bishops and it angers George Irvine and his followers.

I submit my idea of the Poseidon reg. second stage replacement to be forwarded to George Irvine by any of those in the DIR loop. I just want it refered to as the "Buffian" method.

 

[Friggincold]

Buff,
I hate to tell you this but that is already a standard MO for the WKPP divers. They only keep second stages hand tight so they can interchange them if they have a problem with one. They also will interchange any problem stage bottle regulators underwater without a second thought about it.
Friggincold:cold:

 

[Lost Yooper]

Buff, you can swap Apeks second stages underwater too. This is why you should keep the second stages finger tight to the hose. Just between you and me , I once heard Irvine admit that he wouldn't have a problem using an Odin for extremely cold water. Of course, he followed that by saying he wouldn't dive in such water either [grin]. You know my views on the Odin.

Anyway, you're right, the WKPP isn't the only organization doing dangerous dives. There are other organizations doing stuff, but a lot of them, aside from not being as successful, have a poorer safety record doing "weenie" dives by comparison. The Navy has been studying the WKPP for years now, so even they seem to know where to look for information.

The religion comparison kinda bugs me. IMO, religion is based soley upon belief. I don't think DIR is based upon belief at all, but rather upon real life experience of exceptional divers, experimentation, testing, and everyday common sense. I don't like someone shoving their religious or political beliefs down my throat anymore than anyone else. DIR is not a cult out to capture the minds of divers around the world for purpose of human sacrifice . I don't feel like I am a part of a brotherhood of sorts who's duty is to convert as many divers as I can.

Most of the DIR divers I have met have no financial interests in advocating DIR. Most, I think, are like me who's only interest is to share their experiences with others so they may find a safer and more enjoyable way of diving. It doesn't get any more complicated than that (at least for me and those I know).

Where's Divesherpa at? I'm looking forward to his thoughts on this one, because I know he knows all about DIR and chooses not to follow it for some/all (?) of his Florida cave dives .

Take care.

Mike

Ooops, I see Friggincold posted about the second stage swapping while I was writing this post up. Double dose, eh!

 

[jimholcomb]

Originally posted by buff
From George Irvine:
" ... The WKPP is not a closed organization. It is not a closed minded organization. If any of you can show me a better way than DIR and the WKPP team MO, I will adapt those principles TODAY. ..."


a better way than the WKPP team to what? Cave dive. I don't cave dive so why should every point of DIR apply to me? I use what is useful and there are many useful points. But cave diving in Florida is not like ice diving in Minnesota.

I am the same in my Catholisism as I am in my DIR- a buffet user. I pick and chose the the things that are right for me. It angers the Pope and his bishops and it angers George Irvine and his followers.

I submit my idea of the Poseidon reg. second stage replacement to be forwarded to George Irvine by any of those in the DIR loop. I just want it refered to as the "Buffian" method.

I haven't read anywhere on this forum where anyone has criticize your choices in equipment. I haven't heard anyone on this forum criticize your choices in technique. I haven't heard anyone on this forum saying anything about you "doing it wrong".
DIR works well for those who adopt it. PERIOD. Youre still hung up on the name and making religous connotations. I don't ice dive and you may very well have some good points. But you came out of the shute on this thread hung up on names and personalities. You might be the one with the closed mind - not me.

 

[Lost Yooper]

Ice diving is nothing more than a really cold, but relatively basic cave dive . DIR works for ice diving superbly -- at least for me. If someone thinks DIR doesn't work for wreck or ice diving, then let's hear it -- this is what I'm after, specifics .

Mike

 

[The Chairman]

and into the fire!

I think Uncle Pug's last post has been the best...

Just to aid in his "reduction" philosophy, I would like to clarify that you guys are the psychos and we are the social ones... nyuk, nyuk, nyuk!

I don't think I could actually say that I haved "dimissed" the DIR method. However, the only devotees I have met in person (board excluded) would not be considered "stellar" examples of ANY agency. I am sure one day, I will dive with the Pug Meister... and see a more reasoned approach.

As a caveat, just because I point out WHY the animosity exists, you should NOT assume that I have ceased the use of my grey matter. A wise man can learn valuable lessons from his harshest critic. A fool is quick to dismiss even the most gentle of criticisms.

 

[Friggincold]

Buff
I would like to hear some examples of why the specific DIR skills don't work in cold water. I ice dive also. I am interested in how other people do it. I may be able to learn some new techniques other than DIR that will work for me. TIA
Friggincold :cold:

 

[MikeFerrara]

What does DIR/GUE teach or include that is markedly different (more functional) than other agencies?

 

[jetblast00]

Originally posted by MikeFerrara
What does DIR/GUE teach or include that is markedly different (more functional) than other agencies?

I think that the long hose is more functional for air sharing in any type of diving environment, from small passages in caves and wrecks to wide open water.

I think that the DIR/GUE insistance on teamwork is essential as a base line for safer diving

I think that DIR/GUE insistance on personal skills development is right on. Make sure you can do/utilize a skill before putting yourself in an environment where you might have to/will have to use it. (makes sense, I know, but alot of divers/agencies/instructors allow themselves and students to get in 'over their head' so to speak.)

I think that the DIR/GUE mentality for holding oneself accountable for out of water activities makes sense. Exercise regularly, eat right, take care of yourself, etc... because out of water activites will affect you while under water. (again, makes sense, but the most you get out of other agencies is "you should be in fairly reasonable shape...")

These are some of the plus sides that I like and take from DIR, there are others too, and there are some that I don't adhere to for various reasons. All in All though, I think DIR is the best whole system out there, and I draw mostly from it.

 

[Dell Motes]

I have been at groung zero (North Florida) since this whole thing started.
There has always been this type of division, or "factions" in Cave diving.
This is not unique to cave diving either, but is prevelant EVERYWHERE.
PADI versus NAUI, Ford versus Chevy, etc.

But here is the core of it, concerning DIR, but it relates to anything of this nature.
I have met many (and heard of many), DIR d**kheads.
But here is the point. He or She was a real d**khead to begin with.
Do you see the point ! DIR does not make you a d**khead, you already were a d**khead or you were a closet d**khead waiting to come out.
I'm sure that everyone on this list has met d**kheads from day one in their diving career.
The worst can be a new INSTRUCTOR for ANY agency. That does not mean all new instructors are d**kheads, it means that guy was a d**khead to begin with, or was just looking for a reason to become a d**khead.

Now, quickly, someone tell me how many times, d**khead was used in that diatribe ?