Why do we hate the Air2?

[Togalive]

My reasons for not using one have mostly already been stated.

If theres and out of air situation, the last thing I want is for the person in need to be grabbing at an alternate air source that also happens to be right on top of my bc controls. Having all my air dumped, or my bc completely filled sending me into a rapid ascent does not sound like a good idea. I'll stick to my short-hose alternate air source.

 

[Levigarrett]

I completed my Rescue Diver course last weekend and was able to observe a diver, using an Air 2, practice sharing air on an ascent in cold water from 30'. She had to remove the Air 2 from her mouth to dump air from the BC to avoid a runaway ascent.

I don't know if this is normal, or complicated by the simulated OOG diver, but I crossed it off of my desireable equipment list.

I just removed the Air2 from my Excursion simply because it will no longer work for the kind of diving I'm undertaking. I was not aware of the controversies surrounding this equipment when I bought it. If I was, I would have probably made a different selection.

That being said, mine was an Oceanic AirXS and you could quite comfortably breath from it while inflating your BC. You can also dump from it by pulling down while breathing (granted, this is a far more cumbersome operation than inflation). The student you observed was apparently unaware that she had more than one dump option available on her BC. Depending on the manufacturer, she may well have had three different dump options. I'm not so sure you can indict a piece of equipment simply because the diver you witness appears to be unaware of her equipment options.

BTW, I'd be happy to sell my AirXS to anyone who's looking for one 30 dives, excellent condition w/ inflator hose and still under warranty!

I remain ambivalent about the use of these devices for recreational divers. I'm not convinced that they're "less safe" than a standard set up. I would agree that they are less optimal for buddy breathing. How many of us have had to donate a regulator to an OOA diver? Most of the folks I choose to dive with plan their gas a bit better than that or I'd not be diving with them. Equipment malfunctions are another concern of course but in this instance with this setup, donation of your primary regulator would be ideal.

 

[herbdb]

That being said, mine was an Oceanic AirXS and you could quite comfortably breath from it while inflating your BC. You can also dump from it by pulling down while breathing (granted, this is a far more cumbersome operation than inflation). The student you observed was apparently unaware that she had more than one dump option available on her BC. Depending on the manufacturer, she may well have had three different dump options. I'm not so sure you can indict a piece of equipment simply because the diver you witness appears to be unaware of her equipment options.
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She was using a back plate and wing so I don't know what alternate dump valves were available, but she had one hand on the Air 2 and the other holding the simulated OOG diver's rig. Finding a dump lanyard might be a little difficult in those circumstances.

I like the idea of getting rid of a hose, but this seems to complicate things.

 

[rhwestfall]

She was using a back plate and wing so I don't know what alternate dump valves were available, but she had one hand on the Air 2 and the other holding the simulated OOG diver's rig. Finding a dump lanyard might be a little difficult in those circumstances.

I like the idea of getting rid of a hose, but this seems to complicate things.

so her configuration of equipment is not conducive to successful execution... With a pull to dump valve on my back-inflate inflator hose, all controls remain right there.... someone made a poor choice in equipment selection, or was poorly informed by the shop that was aiding her in her purchase. None of which is the fault of the AIR2.

 

[snowdog61]

I had an opportunity to use my Octo-Z this week during lobstering in the Keys. We had a 3rd person with a Go-Pro who wanted to get some footage of us collecting - him on my primary with me on the alternate. I must say it was extremely awkward until I released the velcro restraint securing the inflator to my BC - after that, I can say there wasn't anything significantly different for me to be driven to ditch the octo/inflator setup. One observation is that you need to practice and become familiar with your equipment - in this case, the location of all your air dumps on your BC. I rarely use the shoulder or hip dumps which made this particular venture more of a learning experience than it should have been. Removing the reg from my mouth to dump via the inflator wasn't a cause for concern, but why use that method when there's three other dumps available on the BC?

 

[DA Aquamaster]

As indicated in #364, the Air 2 needs to be considered as part of the whole system. When the Air 2 was first fielded by Scubapro, they used a dump valve on the right side of the BC operated by a separate pull dump. The ball for this dump was also located midway up the front seam of right hand side of the BC jacket and was incredibly easy to find, even under stress.

At that time Scubapro did not use a pull dump on the corrogated inflator hose. Since that time, That has become common, but the Air 2 works just fine with it provided the hose and dump cable are properly sized. When everything is properly configured, it is very easy to dump gas from the BC with the Air 2 in your mouth by simply pressing outward slightly on the hose between the BC and the Air 2. The resulting dump is both easy and controllable.

Alternatively, the diver can just press the large square dump valve button on the Air 2 and it will release air, even when you are breathing off it. A diver having to remove it form hos or her mouth to dump, simply does not understand how it works or how to properly operate it.

Which is to say that liek anything else some training is involved, but it is not rocket science.

Having an OOA buddy grab your Air 2 and thus "control" your buoyancy is not going to happen. In most cases, a panicked diver will go for your primary reg and pull it out of your mouth and it's doubtful he or she would even associate your "inflator" with an alternate air source unles shtey also have one and in that case they are well aware that the Air 2 is intended to be used with a primary donation approach to OOA scenarios.

If you are reasonably sharp you may have just made the connection between a panicked diver grabbing your primary and an Air 2 being intended to be easy to find to support a "donate your primary" approach to gas sharing. The two actually fit very well together.

If you have a conventional octo and lose your primary to a panicked OOA diver, you will then have to find your octo with the panicked OOA diver potentially crawling all over you. In that situation it is far easier to find an Air 2 than it is an octo cliped somewhere in the golden triangle. The ony thing easier is a back up reg on a bungee necklace and that is also an approach that is predicated on primary donation.

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In short, much of the heat the Air 2 takes is due to operator error and ignorance. As a technical diver I prefer a long hose primary and abungee necklaced secondary, but in shallow pretty fish single tank diving, I will use an Air 2 on a single tank rig (when not using a double hose reg for rec diving) as it allows for very clean steamlining of hoses on a Mk 17 or similar diaphragmn design first stage where all three hoses can be routed straight down with nothing poking out away from your body.

In other words in order of preference:

1. Long hose primary/bungeee back up (doubles)
2. Long hose primary and Air 2 back up (single tank)
3. Short hose primary and 36-40" Octo.

 

[Lead_carrier]

She was using a back plate and wing so I don't know what alternate dump valves were available, but she had one hand on the Air 2 and the other holding the simulated OOG diver's rig. Finding a dump lanyard might be a little difficult in those circumstances.

I like the idea of getting rid of a hose, but this seems to complicate things.

It only complicates things if she doesn't practice with the gear that she's diving. If someone is diving with a long hose but doesn't practice OOA, runaway ascents, etc. Then they will have problems with their gear as well. The long and short of the whole thread is that the ones that like it, like it. The ones that hate it, hate it. Both sides of the discussion will spout "facts and figures" to prove their argument, most of which are questionable at best. Personally, I use one and I like it. I also use a regular safe second at times and I do fine with that. Practice what you dive and have fun and be safe.

 

[rx7diver]

As indicated in #364, the Air 2 needs to be considered as part of the whole system. When the Air 2 was first fielded by Scubapro, they used a dump valve on the right side of the BC operated by a separate pull dump. The ball for this dump was also located midway up the front seam of right hand side of the BC jacket and was incredibly easy to find, even under stress.

My early scuba instruction (in 1986) eventually utilized Scubapro Stab Jackets. Three FYI comments:

1. For various reasons, we were NOT permitted to use the ball-pull-string-mechanism on the right side of the BC. Instead we were taught to reach with the our right hand up to the right shoulder dump valve, and directly trip the valve to exhaust air from the SSJ—that is, whenever we needed to, or preferred to, exhaust air through this shoulder dump rather than via the corrugated inflator hose. (Actually, we called this "dump valve" an "over-pressure release/relief valve.")

2. We did not power inflate our SSJ's throughout our entire semester of pool training. Instead, we used manual inflation: Either a manual inflator (which you placed in your mouth and pushed against your teeth to open to be able to blow into) was fitted to the end of the corrugated BC inflator hose, or a Scubapro Balanced Power Inflator, which was NOT connected to a LP inflator hose, was fitted there. The "standard" approach to exhausting air from our SSJ was to remove the manual/power inflator from our mouth, and vent the inflator, being careful to watch the stream of bubbles flowing from it to ensure we were exhausting just the right amount of air. When we were given Air II's for the first time just before leaving for our open water practicum, removing the Air II from our mouth to exhaust the SSJ through the Air II was second nature.

3. We were trained from day one to share air using buddy breathing (using a standard-length regulator hose!). So, removing a reg from our mouth, whether to donate our primary to an out-of-air diver or to vent our BC when breathing from an Air II, was absolutely a non-issue.

Safe Diving,

Ronald

 

[rhwestfall]

Rx7D - your instruction was great! It en-grained the "how to do it when it all goes bad". You know how to do the basics! Ah buddy breathing - the lost art! I remember 10 lengths of the pool, mask off, and you had to start over if you hit bottom, or surfaced (control trim, turns, etc.). this crosses over to another "training" thread". And did I see a reference to "semester"? You mean it wasn't a weekend certification?


oops! Back to the Air2 debate.....

 

[DA Aquamaster]

Ron, I hear you but I'm not sure its relevant.

I also got certified with semester long classes and the luxury of doing all kinds of things that were not covered in the shorter 2-3 week classes of the era - and that are definitely not covered in the all too common weekend courses encountered now. We then followed it up with a spring semester Advanced OW course - one that actually ended up being extended to include extra curricular deco procedures instruction.

Buddy breathing was standard practice then and my first set of dive gear had neither an octo nor an SPG - they were available but not yet considered a mandatory item - especially for a starving college kid.

With that in mind, the Air 2 was by definition firmly in the "octo/air share" era rather than the "buddy breathing" era and hold over skills from the buddy breathing era have no real relevance to how trhe Air 2 was designed to be used.