Why do Used Divesoft Liberty's Lose so much value?

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I haven't seen anything in the Liberty that makes me think that the Liberty is less safe than a reVo, JJ, Inspo or Prism etc. While the systems do have some extra complexities in them, from what I can see they are just things that are operating away quietly in the background but don't add any task loading or cause any issues for the diver.

The other thing is we don't seem to be seeing any Liberty divers diving on regular bimbles to 50-60 metres on a reef wall or wreck - most have been dives to 120 metres + in caves, or 100 metre solo dives etc. There have been a couple with known causes that can't be blamed on the rebreather - entering the water with O2 cylinder turned off, or severe DCI after getting blown out of a cave.

Did the Liberty divers that you spoke to indicate that the software issues occurred in the water or during startup etc?
Looks like I somehow stuffed up what I meant to say - the second paragraph was supposed to say -

The other thing is we don't seem to be seeing any Liberty divers dying on regular bimbles to 50-60 metres on a reef wall or wreck - most deaths on a Liberty have been on dives to 120 metres + in caves, or 100 metre solo dives etc. There have been a couple with known causes that can't be blamed on the rebreather - entering the water with O2 cylinder turned off, or severe DCI after getting blown out of a cave.
 
Adding my 2 cents as a Liberty Heavy 2021 owner.

I am curious to know what kind of software issues those divers reported. Combined with 2 other friends, we have above 400 hours on the Liberty (1 heavy, 2 sidemount), and I never had any software issue during a dive or pre-dive. Neither my friends, diving up to 60m.

Divesoft updates the software quite often, maybe 3 to 4 times a year (in the past 2 years). Maybe the software issues were reported in old units?

Regards,
OK that is great to know! Many thanks for that! What is the tech diving scene like in Hong Kong?
 
LOL, no tech diving in HK. Below 15m you have 0 visibility. We normally do tech diving in Philippines.
I can relate to that - I live in southern Australia but tech dive in the Red Sea - mainly because as far as I know there aren't any 2000 year old shipwrecks in Australia - oh and the water is warmer too :)
 
Why does a Corvette loose $12000 in value with 600 miles on it? Why is a $4000 gaming computer basically a paperweight after 3 years? What do you think a YBOD is worth these days?. A Sentinel.

For most people, diving is a hobby. Hobbies are not secured investments. Hobbies cost money. Go buy a boat and find out.
 
Why does a Corvette loose $12000 in value with 600 miles on it? Why is a $4000 gaming computer basically a paperweight after 3 years? What do you think a YBOD is worth these days?. A Sentinel.

For most people, diving is a hobby. Hobbies are not secured investments. Hobbies cost money. Go buy a boat and find out.
Thtat"s the point!

I'm an Inspo instructor, love them, but know that EVERY rebreather will loose value as any hobby tool will.
An instructor friend of mine just told me once what a great deal i've made selling my sidewinder for 75% of the price i've payed.
Yes, we love and give a lot of value for our machines, but that's the hard truth
 
I would compair this to say.. a sports car. You can find a car that the owner says is low mileage and it has great paint and a ceramic coat to keep it new looking. then as you go to lookat ot or worse you buy it and find out it was someones track car and they didnt do maintance.

When you buy a used CCR you dont have any real guarantees, So you pay less anticipating having to do some maintenance, upgrades. If you send it back to Divesoft and get a quote for all the upgrades, and have it serviced. Then when you sell it you cand show and have some record of the condition, and you can have an educated discusion on THIS unit not just this manufacturer/year unit. its not as simple as "its 12k new I want 9k why wont anyone buy it?? look!! its pretty!!" I have sold units used as much as 9k, with full service records and a good faith warrentee. even though they were showing signes of use (scratches etc).
 
But It is my belief that as an advanced CCR diver, I should know my own limits as this is the essential skill of remaining alive.
  • Why are you selling your CCR?
  • What don't you like about your CCR?
  • What do you like about your CCR?
  • How many hours did you dive on your CCR?
  • How many CCR's have you tried?
  • What CCR do you intend to buy?
  • How much do you think your CCR is worth?
  • What made you choose the Liberty?
 
Been a few days since the last traffic in here but I just found it. Full disclosure, I own two liberties right now. A back mount that can be used as a heavy and a side mount. I also own a gemini. I have multiple hundreds of hours on eight units so I am an agnostic rebreather user. I don't know if my observations will be of any use but what the heck.

I started on a MEG 2.7 and had just shy of 1100 hours when I got rid of that. Move to a fathom. Had 400 hours on that and then moved to the liberty. I have dived a joki, a sidewinder, the gemini, the liberties, a satori, among others. I am by no means an expert on any of this. I also sell quite a bit of dive gear. Some of which is mine and some of which was purchased for the purpose of resale.

Rebreathers have specific characteristics that impact their value that varies by brand and manufacture date. That's just a fact that goes along with many other toys. When you buy something for the purpose of reselling it you will never get the same value as if it were yours for years. No matter what you say to the potential buyer, you will not have the history as if it were yours. It will not have the same resale to the purchaser and it certainly does not have the same emotional value to the seller. Values are decreased in those use cases.

I have not had any issues with the Liberty since I've been using it since 2021. I do not consider a botched software update or some software Gremlins as a rebreather problem. Although I will agree that it may manifest as an issue that impacts it's use that would generally be in advance of splashing.

I'm not aware of any rebreather manufacturer that does not recommend an annual service. Variety of reasons and certainly not limited simply to normal maintenance problems and I would offer that it would be seen as a limit to their liability if you violated their prescribed maintenance process.

Having said that, I have never sent a unit in for service. I've always done it or sought help from others with more experience and technical ability. I will do nothing different with the liberty.

The Liberty has more bits and pieces and certainly more o-rings. It also has more capacity and capability than most any other unit on the market. I love shearwater, but they are hammers. The Liberty electronics are not hammers. They do more than shearwater has any interest in doing. And that's okay. I was initially intimidated by the capacity of the electronics but have grown to appreciate it. There was a learning curve especially after 12 years on shearwater. I would hardly consider it unmanageable. You can also decide what things you do not wish to use in the handset and turn them off.

To answer the original question which is why do they lose value, I don't believe that is restricted to this brand. I think there are several specifics at play with this unit Rodney is selling. I don't think there's anything wrong with the unit nor do I think it would absolutely be necessary to update it for the cost of $5,500. Absolutely anyone looking to purchase it would use that to negotiate the sale price. Certainly I would. A unit that was maintained and updated as the manufacturer prescribed would have significantly more value, as it should. To apply the specifics of this case to all liberties is probably a bit unfair.

Apologize for the long and fairly useless post, but there it is. And I do wish Rodney good luck with the sale. And once he's desperate enough, I hope he calls me!
 

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