Why are so many female divers codependent?

[MeiLing]

For the record, I never said All Female Divers are Codependent. I said that IN MY EXPERIENCE I have had a hard time finding female divers who are independent. I have observed a disproportionate amount of dependency among female divers.
NO ONE (male OR female) should enter an alien environment on life support if they are not capable of dealing with problems in that environment. And for the husbands who love their wives and don't see a problem with helping her - carrying gear is polite, but you are endangering both of you if you are not encouraging your wife to be capable of dealing with an emergency if something should happen to you in the water.
It does sound like I should check out some of those cold water locations to find an awesome chick dive buddy! I've never been ice diving and I really want to dive with Belugas!

Perhaps you are having a hard time finding independent diving women because you are hanging around dive businesses and diving men who are catering to the dependent women. Obviously, you yourself are a case on point. Furthermore, the kind of dive business that doesn't separate couple buddy teams in a class, is potentially a lawsuit just waiting to happen!

In addition, couples working together on things can sometimes be like oil and water! Separating couples in a class minimizes the likelihood that there will be disagreements and drama! I don't carry a dive slate anymore, because my husband and I have been known to get into arguments on a dive slate!

At the shop I was certified in and among the divers I hang out with, all the female divers I know are all quite independent! But then again, these are folks who are not the kind who would push someone into the sport to be able to spend time with their SO. We're just fine with those that don't want to dive and there's a place for them too in our group. In fact they have a very important job: Beach watch! One gal hung around our group for ten years doing just that. Her sister and dad are divers. Just this past year, this gal decided she wanted to do an intro. I was with her on that dive and she did become certified last fall. She now has around 40 dives and is quite competent!

It is known in psychology, that many of the traits of others that tend to annoy us, are those that are pretty strong in ourselves. I wonder if that could that be the case here with your focus on this issue? Perhaps your annoyance with these kind of women causes you to look for any excuse to place that label on other women who are diving with their SO and overlook those who really are independent divers.

 

[viceroy]

I've only ever really dived with independant female divers. I have seen only 1 woman diver who was totally dependant on her husband, but that was many years ago.

During my first 2 years of diving, I regularly dove with two women who were very independant...in fact, we used to compete in a friendly way to see who could get the highest scores in qualification exams, we'd always be competing to get our air consumption to be the best (obviously without breathholding or any other stupid methods).

I trusted them as dive buddies, even more so than a lot of the guys in the group who I'd consider to be alcohol guzzling idiots (some of which suffered in the end with cases of the bends.)

A couple months ago I found out about free Discover Scuba courses being held by a local diving club and I asked my fiance if she was interested, and she was, so I took her and her sister to give it a go.

She struggled a little bit at first, but I didn't want to get involved...It was the intstructors job to make sure she was comfy and was enjoying her self...I sat on the side of the pool with the camera and basically just sunned myself.

After her intro, I asked if she was keen and she was...couldn't stop talking about it, so that week I arranged (in secret) with the dive club/shop for her to start her OW course.
The next weekend I took her to the shop and handed her over to the instructor/shop attendant who showed her all the basic gear while I browsed for stuff I'd be interested in...Every now and again coming over to see what she was up to.
Of course she'd ask my recommendations, but I think overall, she picked out everything for herself.

I've also made it clear to her that I don't want her depending on me, and that she must set up her own gear (I'll carry all the heavy things to and from the car to the set-up area).

I think she'll be a better diver because of it, and I trust her as my buddy...

 

[Gwen1011]

This is really a fascinating thread to me since I'm obviously one of those "independent female divers (IFDs)." I've been diving for 13 years and have gotten at least 5 guys (who wanted to based on my enthusiasm, not because I coerced) involved in the sport, and I've never been dependent on any of them for even carrying my gear when we buddy up. My favorite buddy (sorry guys) is a fellow IFD like myself. She got into the sport independent of her husband, and we know several other IFDs like us. But to Rum's point we do know lots of the dependent ones, as well. But usually, they end up diving for a bit with their significant other and lose interest eventually. I wouldn't personally want to dive with someone who didn't want to. Might as well dive alone as far as buddy benefit goes. And then I can see the guys' point too, wanting their SO to dive with them, it's wonderful to share the experience with someone special. And some of these guys are willing to do it all to make that happen.

Gwen

 

[Bobbin-along]

for many women the diving thing is a give and take, but I too have seen the inequal balance. There are 3 couples in the store that drive me bananas with the overly protective hubby and the passive female who normally isn't passive in any part of their life. The men set up the gear, hover, reach over and adjust buoyancy, and one even puts his wifes mask on her face for her. So we had a shop talk about cycles of dependence. The wives would be intimidated by something, and the loving spouse would compensate by trying to make things easier for them (thinking it would keep her diving), then when something else wasn't quite right, the same pattern would take over. By continuing to "help" they were further ensuring over time that the women would default to the spouse when something was "too hard". And that then further perpetuates the cycle.

Step one has been for them to dive with more independent couples, buddy pairing man-man and woman-woman/mentor. Then they hit the water and the guys go do their thing and the women do theirs. At every safety stop both buddy pairs have agreed ahead of time what skill they might practice in the water. mask off, share air, blow a bag, etc. In 3 dives the confidence level of the women was at the point they began to take ownership of their dive experience. Now those women who used to let hubby do everything are much more comfortable in their abilities and the hubbies have backed off. We still do women's mentor dives as shop events to keep everyone fresh.

The disconnect in understanding the OP is that many of the regular active divers are pretty independent of their buddies when it comes to being able to complete a dive without the other. Especially SB members. Sure helping each other with gearing up is normal, but both should be able to set up their own gear as well as their spouses, not continually relying on one person to have the knowledge and ability. Physical needs can require a buddy to help more, but that's not what the OP is talking about. When both are physically able, there shouldn't be a reason for one to be continually dominant and the other helpless.

And from time to time hubby will connect my gear if I'm busy trying to help someone else or dealing with a problem, but I NEVER hit the water without completely going over the setup and checking everything over twice. Sure I trust him with my life, but it's MY responsiblity to make sure my gear is spot on, not him. and when it's doubles or rebreather NOBODY touches/preps/or cleans your gear but YOU. I won't clean his gear for the advanced stuff, even though I do clean his gear after a single tank/BC dive because it's in the same bin as mine is. And he never touches my advanced gear, even though I love him and trust him with my life.

 

[HNITSUJ]

I was one of the husbands who brought their wife in to get trained, but under her request. What I find funny about this thread is that I had tried to help my wife (carry gear etc.) but she insisted she was going to do it. She'd walk into the shop carrying so much stuff to the point of collapse because she wanted to do it without help. I applaud her efforts and shes a great diver given she's on been on a 1/2 dozen dives. She still sets up her entire rig and gets herself into the water, I just assist in getting her tank and BC onto her back.

 

[WicketsMom]

I guess I don't fit at all in the category of 'co-dependent' female diver. My husband is my dive buddy, and was also certified by me. The first trip we went on after we started dating, he wasn't certified so I buddied with a friend of mine (another female) while he snorkeled above. He decided on his own that he wanted to learn when we returned home, and was a great student and has been a wonderful buddy ever since.

Usually, I am the one that packs all of our gear for a trip, and we both carry some of it. We usually each set up our own gear, but sometimes he has done mine for me - especially if I'm leading a dive with a group of students and have to take care of other tasks on the boat such as selecting the dive site, and assisting students with their gear, etc. We both check out each other's gear after it is set up, and have good communications underwater. Yes, I keep a close eye on his air toward the end of the dive because I know that he consumes alot more than I do. He will generally rinse both our gear when we return home, and I put it away (so that I'll know where it is before the next trip!).

I have also seen the type of diver, both male and female, that have come in to get certified because their spouse/parent/sibling wants them to. Sometimes we do separate them in the pool, sometimes not - it all depends on the couple and whether one is interfering with the other one's ability to learn the skills. All of the students must assemble their own gear both at the pool and during the certification dives, but if one wants to help carry tanks or the heavier gear for the other one, that's not a problem. We did have one student that was literally in tears over having to do a giant stride entry into the pool, while the diver spouse sat on the side and watched. We worked with her on-on-one for a few sessions, and finally told her that diving just wasn't for her and she seemed relieved that she didn't have to try it anymore.

I do almost always try to let couples buddy together on the certification dives. Chances are, they will be dive buddies on any other dives they do, and I like for them to learn to work together as a team. It also allows me to see any issues that may need to be addressed with one buddy being dependent on the other and correct that while they are still on a closely supervised dive.

 

[frogman27]

I'm the husband of a very tentative diver. I'm in love with diving, and would don my gear to dive a bath tub. It's all good as long as I'm, in the water. My wife is certified and has been for 4-5 years. She probably has 30-40 dives, although in the same time I've done many, many more than that with classes and I do some cavern. She's had the opportunities, just doesn't take them. We've taken week long scuba vacations at inclusive resorts, and she'll dive once. She gets upset if I try to make plans to dive without her because she wants to dive. She's claustrophobic, and each year it's been a struggle to get started again because if we're away for a few months she seems to build up an unreasonable fear that worries me. I'm afraid she's at that point where anything unexpected could cause her to panic. I ask her to practice in the pool and she won't because it's boring. I've asked her to stop diving if she really doesn't want to but she swears she really does enjoy it and want to dive. I'm at a loss. At this point I'm frustrated. I've managed to get wet once in the last year. If I plan a dive trip she wants to be involved, but always comes up with some last minute reason we can't make it. She says she just needs practice, but won't make the steps to get it. I started looking into solo diving classes and she blew a gasket. Anyone have any advice??

 

[Ayisha]

That sounds frustrating. It sounds like she just wants to be there with you, even though she may not enjoy it as much as you. Her fear and possible panic could be dangerous for both of you, and she should resolve it or consider not diving until she sorts through her anxiety.

Many of us dive without our spouses. My husband does not dive, although he has tried a few times and didn't like it. He is afraid of many things in o/w. We go on group dive trips together and he has a blast and has made many friends. There are always some non-diving spouses, whether they are certified or not. My hubby has snorkelled above us while we dive and/or joined us on the boat. I get to go diving in the morning with my friends and we all meet up for lunch and have the rest of the day/night together. I'm suggesting group dive trips for you also so that she can be with you, but if she chooses not to dive, you can still dive. She can even keep an eye on you on the boat.

Also, if you have a network of friends who dive, if she cancels on you, there should be no reason that you can't still go, at least once in a while. My husband knows my friends and I will go diving with them sometimes for a day or a weekend together, and he doesn't mind if it's not all the time. It is hard to do things without your spouse, but it is preferable to feeling resentful if she cancels your fun together. She should realize that getting cancelled at the last minute is very disappointing for you.

Hope that helps.

 

[Sas]

I agree with Ayisha. Though it really sounds like she is not that interested in diving, and is doing it to spent time with you, but yea that is just what it appears to me based only on your post! I can't imagine with the fear and claustrophobia she has, that diving is that great for her so either she is doing it to spent time with you or really wants to overcome her fear. But yea, if the second case is true it doesn't sound like she is doing much about it so that is why I thought the former case is more likely. Especially how she cancels your trips.

If it were me, I'd just say 'well I want to go on the trip so tough if you can't come' (but nicer obviously ) but yea, me and my partner travel a lot separately anyway so it is hard for me to relate to that. I think she probably just doesn't want to spend time apart from you but doesn't want to dive, and isn't being honest about that feeling. But if that is making you resentful as it is stopping you going on trips and diving you need to talk to her about it. Maybe you could do half your holidays as diving trips where she can come if she wants but if she doesn't want to you get to go on your own, and half your holidays with something other than diving as the focus?

Anyway my 2c.

 

[leabre]

I've only begun reading the original post but thought I'd offer my input (as a husband of a diver). I've noticed the same thing. My best dive buddy, he's as independant and seasoned as it gets. I dove with him finally one day with his wife and he was so attentive to her it was surprising to me. So I know I'm not alone in this.

Me, I'm also independent and self-reliant, mainly from diving with so many people that are such. I prefer it that way. But when I dive with my wife, she's not as experienced, doesn't dive as much. She trusts me and looks to me for assistence but mainly as a second opinion in case she missed something. She feels more comfortable following me though. But the fact is, if I don't give her my undivided attention I'll hear from it never ending. In fact, I paid for a year once while she wouldn't dive and got mad when I did. Now we're over it.

When I took LA County ADP program, I carried her gear bag back to the car and they were all over me. They seperated us for the remaining 10 weeks. Just last week we were at Casino Point Catalina Island and when she was exiting at the steps asked me to remove her fins but I didn't quickly enough (there was some interesting swell throwing us around) and kept pushing her into the poles and steps. Finally, she told me that she doesn't ever want my help again and will become independant... dives since then, she's truly doing so.

Anyway, my point is this: I think that men treat their loved ones this way mainly because if the woman isn't comfortable with her abilities yet, expects us to be their support, and anything less than undivided attention, we men will never hear the end of it.

Where it happens early in the dive career, if he is more experienced and she has little or no, might just be trying to help with gear but I agree, the diver has to make their own decisions for their own reasons. Wife and I got gear together. Whatever gear we purchased, we got 2 of except for sizing. Both of us have since completely replaced our gear with newer better gear given our needs and realization that what we bought originally wasn't a long term purchase due to various inadequacies. I think people should buy their own gear and be responsible for themselves, but I also think that for most people, buddying with loved once may not always be the best idea until both are self-reliant otherwise it creates a co-dependence that might be hard to break and may or may not be healthy.

For the record, she has always understood the value of setting up her own gear and that she is ultimately responsible for her own life, not me, and for studying hard to learn well while training for the next levels. She does carry her own gear now and knows when to say "no" to dive sites that might tax her getting to/from. But during the dive, she's very dependent on me to lead. We have very different breathing rates so it's hard for me sometimes always having to question her air pressure. On an HP 80 (3500 PSI), I'll be on 2100 shen she's approaching 1100 (identicle tank). These days, she doesn't take much advice from me anymore and does her own research. Kudo's to her on that though it may not be a glowing testimony for me... too often she's depended on me and I let her down in some way but...

Thanks,
Shawn