Question Which scooter? (used genesis vs seacraft go)

[NLoma001]

Starting to look at buying a dpv...Considering range, noise etc I am leaning towards seacraft go however saw someone had listed a used dive logic 600 used for about thr same price (listing was a bit confusing as it had a warpcore upgrade and also says genesis 2.0 on thr tail. Anyone have insight on if this might actually be a genesis 2.1 or how thr 3 1 2.1 700 differ? Also what would you choose...Seacraft go? Used genesis?

Usecase: South Florida rec dives mostly

 

[Jollymon32]

The batteries gradually deteriorate, whether you use them or not.

I believe I have read that every 5 years or so would be a not unreasonable interval for changing them. However, that is obviously going to be very dependent on a LOT of different variables. Especially, how tolerant the individual is to having their scooter only operating with, for example, half its original capacity.

Also, you can find yourself having to replace batteries “prematurely” as the result of a variety of accidents or defects.

I bought my Genesis brand new in the box, but from a guy who had let it sit in its original box, in a warehouse for several years. It needed all new batteries just because of how long it sat without getting a top-up charge.

To me, the cost of replacement batteries is not something to just dismiss as “I’ll sell it before that matters.” Even if you do sell it before replacing the batteries, it has a significant effect on resale value.

OK - let's look at a long term total cost of ownership:

The Go is currently $5,330 and a new set of batteries is $2,200, so you are in $7,530 for the scooter and a new set of batteries.

On the Genesis you are at $8970 + $350 for a new set of batteries = $9,320.

Let's factor in another battery change for both: Go=$9730 Genesis=$9670

The difference at this point is the resale value - there we can only surmise what the resale value would be on the Go as they are not that old. On the Genesis, I am sure we can see what others have paid for a 5 year old model.

 

[grantmac]

I wouldn't either - unless it was the only option with the desired feature set.

I may yet buy a Go! just because of how small and light it is.

But, what I would LOVE to see is a Genesis 3.05. A miniaturized Genesis, on par with the size and weight of the Go!. Something with a smaller Warp Core that was maybe 500 - 600 W-Hr.

Less thrust than the 3.1/3.2 would be fine, too, as long as it was at least as much as the Go!.

At the Go! price point, of course.

Yes, I know it's a pipe dream....

I'm a hobby machinist and tinkerer. An AL80 has enough "meat" to be turned to fit the Genesis back end. Pretty sure I could get something down below 30# and 450-500WH would give me 90 minutes at my usual cruise. A custom pack with Bluetooth to enable/disable and a charging pigtail on a basic wet connector.

 

[stuartv]

I'm a hobby machinist and tinkerer. An AL80 has enough "meat" to be turned to fit the Genesis back end. Pretty sure I could get something down below 30# and 450-500WH would give me 90 minutes at my usual cruise. A custom pack with Bluetooth to enable/disable and a charging pigtail on a basic wet connector.

But, a Go! is 21# and only 20 inches long.

And, I will not buy another scooter that requires opening the hull to charge it.

 

[Jon Nellis]

OK - let's look at a long term total cost of ownership:

You are forgetting something...

The cost of missed opportunity for the dives you couldn't go on because your little plastic DPV didn't have enough thrust or range.

Priceless!



.

 

[stuartv]

OK - let's look at a long term total cost of ownership:

The Go is currently $5,330 and a new set of batteries is $2,200, so you are in $7,530 for the scooter and a new set of batteries.

On the Genesis you are at $8970 + $350 for a new set of batteries = $9,320.

Let's factor in another battery change for both: Go=$9730 Genesis=$9670

The difference at this point is the resale value - there we can only surmise what the resale value would be on the Go as they are not that old. On the Genesis, I am sure we can see what others have paid for a 5 year old model.

We cannot know what resale value will be in 5 years, true.

But, I feel pretty confident in saying that a Genesis will fetch a good chunk more in resale.

So much so that MY financial analysis would conclude that, MOST LIKELY, after just one battery replacement, and then selling them both, you would break even between the two. I.e. after 5 years, a Genesis 2.1 or 3.1 would be worth $1800 (roughly, your calculated difference after 1 set of batteries) more than a Go!. Easily.

 

[grantmac]

But, a Go! is 21# and only 20 inches long.

And, I will not buy another scooter that requires opening the hull to charge it.

I'd rather spend the <$1000 on a DIY conversion and have a much more capable 30# DPV. Mainly because at 55# I just barely can't comfortably carry the Genesis 1200 with one hand.

 

[Jon Nellis]

And, I will not buy another scooter that requires opening the hull to charge it.

If you have to OPEN A SEALED PORT to recharge, it's not external recharging, it's marketing.

Adding another o-ring seal (aka possible failure point) that needs to be opened and closed on a regular basis, instead to the main body o-ring, is more of a liability than a marketing "feature."



.

 

[Jollymon32]

You are forgetting something...

The cost of missed opportunity for the dives you couldn't go on because your little plastic DPV didn't have enough thrust or range.

Priceless!



.

Jon, notice that I predicated the selection of one over the other based on the use case.

I own both because I hit the limitation of the Go on extended beach dives; although at 100% power on the Go I could keep up with my friends on Genesis at 60% power, they had to slow down on the return to the shore when I hit the 20% battery level and mine cut back to 40% power.

But the Go will make for a great DPV for my wife as she only goes on boat dives. Indeed, if she is not going and I am going on a boat dive, I will take the Go - it is much lighter and smaller and uses up about 20% of the battery on a two tank boat trip.

And honestly, at 50% power, the range is not limited by battery on either DPV but rather by gas supply. I finished a 92 minute beach dive on the Go with over 50% battery (and 532 PSI on the tank) simply because a Blacktip joined us and I had to throttle down to 40-50% power for the entire dive.

 

[stuartv]

If you have to OPEN A SEALED PORT to recharge, it's not external recharging, it's marketing.

Adding another o-ring seal (aka possible failure point) that needs to be opened and closed on a regular basis, instead to the main body o-ring, is more of a liability than a marketing "feature."

Valid point - assuming you are saying that having the sealed port open (or leaking) during a dive would create some kind of problem.

I don't know the other scooters well enough.

Do you know what scooters claimed to offer sealed hull charging, but have a sealed port that would cause a problem if it was open or leaking during a dive?

Jon may not want to call out the competition specifically.

Does anyone else know of any specific scooter models that have a sealed charging port that would have a problem if the port were open or leaking?

Does the Go! have a charging port that would cause a problem during a dive if it was open or leaking?

What about the Seacraft Future and Ghost? Do they have charging ports that would cause a problem if open or leaking?

 

[stuartv]

I'd rather spend the <$1000 on a DIY conversion and have a much more capable 30# DPV. Mainly because at 55# I just barely can't comfortably carry the Genesis 1200 with one hand.

I'd just have a Genesis 2.1/3.1 in that case.

It's not <$1000, but if you have a 1200, you could get it converted to a Warp Core. You could even have a 3.2 Warp Core, a 3.2 tube, and a 3.1 tube and then reconfigure the Warp Core to the 3.1 size for when you want to use the scooter that way.

Or just convert the 1200 to a 3.1, if you don't really need 1200 W-Hr...

My Genesis was a 2.2 when I got it. I converted it to a 2.1 and sold the long tube and the extra half of the Warp Core. And did not lose money...