Which reg/what to consider? S/P Mk25 and 2nds

[NAUI Wowie]

It is not an insignificant cost at service time to keep those things sealed, and you have to be extremely careful with them around heat to prevent any of the grease from leaking out. If it does, it will trap sea water and utterly destroy pistons so I would never go 3 years with a sealed piston. Yes it has happened, yes it's real, and yes it is really expensive when it happens. If you want a sealed regulator, buy one that actually seals instead of one that's packed with grease to pretend

So it is a pretend sealed regulator. No one mentioned this when I was at my LDS and looking at atomic vs scubapro vs.....SO basically if i go up to canada and ocean dive it can freeze up on me? Is the titanium scubapro pretend sealed also or real sealed? My main concern is of course weight along with what i mentioned.

edit,,, all the DMs that are also sales people at the dive shop are tec divers with average of 30 years experience. Up here in norcal. Im not happy they didnt mention this

 

[BoltSnap]

It is not an insignificant cost at service time to keep those things sealed, and you have to be extremely careful with them around heat to prevent any of the grease from leaking out. If it does, it will trap sea water and utterly destroy pistons so I would never go 3 years with a sealed piston. Yes it has happened, yes it's real, and yes it is really expensive when it happens. If you want a sealed regulator, buy one that actually seals instead of one that's packed with grease to pretend

@tbone1004 Just loves to talk down SP piston regulators and Atomics for all sorts of invalid reasons. I have used SP for decades and Atomic since mid 90's around the world, no issues whatsoever! From the dark muddy Long Island Sound to New England, NY, NJ to the tropics and no issues at all, none!!!

In regards to sealing the Atomic regulators, I have been using them since mid 90's and they have been the most reliable best performing regulators I have used and owned. I can, and do, go for 3 - 5 years without servicing them and they perform like new without issues. Sealing them isn't an issue and isn't a big deal at all. I don't know nor understand why the hype and the extreme exaggeration is coming from except for the uncompromising extremism in holding and defending one's dogma in the choice of their dive equipment.

 

[NAUI Wowie]

@tbone1004 Just loves to talk down SP piston regulators and Atomics for all sorts of invalid reasons. I have used SP for decades and Atomic since mid 90's around the world, no issues whatsoever! From the dark muddy Long Island Sound to New England, NY, NJ to the tropics and no issues at all, none.

In regards to sealing the Atomic regulators, I have used them since mid 90's and they have been the most reliable best performing regulators I have used and owned. I can, and do, for 3 - 5 years without servicing them and they perform like new without issues. Sealing them isn't an issue and isn't a big deal at all. I don't know nor understand why the hyper and the extreme exaggeration is coming from except for militancy in holding and defending one's dogma in the choice of their dive equipment.

Ah thanks , so a variation of " The Russians are coming! The Russians are coming!!!" for us older guys substitute BRITISH for Russian lol

thanks for the counterpoint he had me worried like....just GREASE is keeping me alive down here????

 

[MichaelMc]

Deep6 Signature first stage ~$280 diaphragm sealed by its environmental diaphragm, not by packing it with grease. I've got two, one with their second, the other with a SP balanced 109.

Or some other diaphragm reg.

I've got a Mk25 Evo as well. And a tiny stable of SP seconds (108, 109, 156, 2x S600) but decided I like all that gritty stuff on the outside of my first stages. Just an issue that can be avoided.

 

[BoltSnap]

Ah thanks , so a variation of " The Russians are coming! The Russians are coming!!!" for us older guys substitute BRITISH for Russian lol

thanks for the counterpoint he had me worried like....just GREASE is keeping me alive down here????

@tbone1004 is a sweetheart but goes overboard sometimes. Deep down, way deep, he is a nice guy and means well

 

[guruboy]

I wouldn't bother paying extra for the G260 BT. Just get the regulat G260.

If you're considering a S620 TI, I would also consider an S600. I don't know if the A700 is worth the extra cost over the S600.

 

[NAUI Wowie]

@tbone1004 is a sweetheart but goes overboard sometimes. Deep down, way deep, he is a nice guy and means well

starting to deep dive into diaphram vs piston threads. Im seeing the atomic sealed with christolube being said as more bullet proof safe than diaphrams. in thread searches. I guess its whatever people like opinions vary, tomayto tomahto etc. my thing though is are there any super duper light regs out there that are NOT piston. Its looking like all the expensive regs mostly are piston so even if I hated piston id still buy one for the weight savings.

 

[uncfnp]

I am an ABC fan, Anyone but Carolina. Doesn't matter which one.

Hmmm. I may have to go back and “unlike” your posts.

 

[tbone1004]

So it is a pretend sealed regulator. No one mentioned this when I was at my LDS and looking at atomic vs scubapro vs.....SO basically if i go up to canada and ocean dive it can freeze up on me? Is the titanium scubapro pretend sealed also or real sealed? My main concern is of course weight along with what i mentioned.

edit,,, all the DMs that are also sales people at the dive shop are tec divers with average of 30 years experience. Up here in norcal. Im not happy they didnt mention this

the issue is not freezing, the issue is salt being trapped against the piston and causing issues with scoring, corrosion, etc. that will cause premature piston replacement. It's why Scubapro engineered away from packing regulators with grease.
Now, is it a "big" issue. No, obviously not. If they are sealed properly, and if they are kept out of the glaring sun for excessive periods of time *causes the grease to run and potentially a bit to escape*, then you'll end up like @BurhanMuntasser and all of my buddies that take religious care of their regulators. It all comes back to how much you trust your regulator technician to do the job properly. I unequivocally do not trust the vast majority of reg techs to touch any of my stuff because I know what goes on back there. Contrary to what he said though, my primary first stages are all MK25's. On my CCR, doubles, and sidemount rigs. They're all MK25's and have been for several years. They're great regs, but I dive fresh water so don't have to worry about rinsing them. If my primary diving was cold/salty/muddy, they wouldn't even be on the list. Better tools for that job. Doesn't mean they can't do it, doesn't mean they won't do it well, but why would I choose a regulator that I have to spend an extra $60+ every time I service it to pack it full of grease, or if I self-service spend an extra half hour cleaning and packing the thing on top of the cost of lube, then still have to make sure I'm really careful with it so salt water doesn't get in? Alternative is a sealed diaphragm where careful rinsing and flushing isn't required, just a quick rinse and it's good, and there is no extra time or cost to clean and service. Sure they aren't as high flow *but all the diaphragms are still flow limited by the valve itself*, and they don't respond quite as quickly *which is still faster than you can breathe*, but they're pretty darn good.
There's a reason sump divers don't use pistons, the murk/muck/sand etc. don't play nice with them. There's a reason that Atomic isn't used by the USN or any other Navy, and same with being used in deep/cold commercial diving. Poseidon and Apeks are.

Is it splitting hairs? yes, but if someone says they're buying something for cold, salty, muddy water, I just can't recommend a regulator that doesn't do that specific job as well as something else.

@uncfnp I have plenty of close friends and family that went to UNC, but I'm kind of bound to root against them.

 

[NAUI Wowie]

the issue is not freezing, the issue is salt being trapped against the piston and causing issues with scoring, corrosion, etc. that will cause premature piston replacement. It's why Scubapro engineered away from packing regulators with grease.
Now, is it a "big" issue. No, obviously not. If they are sealed properly, and if they are kept out of the glaring sun for excessive periods of time *causes the grease to run and potentially a bit to escape*, then you'll end up like @BurhanMuntasser and all of my buddies that take religious care of their regulators. It all comes back to how much you trust your regulator technician to do the job properly. I unequivocally do not trust the vast majority of reg techs to touch any of my stuff because I know what goes on back there. Contrary to what he said though, my primary first stages are all MK25's. On my CCR, doubles, and sidemount rigs. They're all MK25's and have been for several years. They're great regs, but I dive fresh water so don't have to worry about rinsing them. If my primary diving was cold/salty/muddy, they wouldn't even be on the list. Better tools for that job. Doesn't mean they can't do it, doesn't mean they won't do it well, but why would I choose a regulator that I have to spend an extra $60+ every time I service it to pack it full of grease, or if I self-service spend an extra half hour cleaning and packing the thing on top of the cost of lube, then still have to make sure I'm really careful with it so salt water doesn't get in? Alternative is a sealed diaphragm where careful rinsing and flushing isn't required, just a quick rinse and it's good, and there is no extra time or cost to clean and service. Sure they aren't as high flow *but all the diaphragms are still flow limited by the valve itself*, and they don't respond quite as quickly *which is still faster than you can breathe*, but they're pretty darn good.
There's a reason sump divers don't use pistons, the murk/muck/sand etc. don't play nice with them. There's a reason that Atomic isn't used by the USN or any other Navy, and same with being used in deep/cold commercial diving. Poseidon and Apeks are.

Is it splitting hairs? yes, but if someone says they're buying something for cold, salty, muddy water, I just can't recommend a regulator that doesn't do that specific job as well as something else.

@uncfnp I have plenty of close friends and family that went to UNC, but I'm kind of bound to root against them.

well luckily I just picked up a 19cf Pony tank for when my 1 yr old atomic T3 dies on me. Its got I believe a 15 yr old or older apeks reg. that i just serviced on the pony.