When to donate air?

[DrWilliam]

I think you're hitting on a significant point here. How many divers really practice gas-sharing ascents? I think the last time I attempted one was the GUE Fundies course. I think for most divers, the go-to recourse for a plain old LOA event should be to end the dive and ascend together normally, provided their gas planning says a normal ascent is still possible. In an ideal world, we would all keep well practiced in the skill of a gas-sharing ascent, but maybe that's a lot to expect?

THIS is exactly my point. Stick with your own air until shallower. Don't start donating at depth when you don't have to. If we're going to share air, lets do it in a minute or two when we are 30 or 60 feet shallower than we are now. Until then, lets do a controlled safe ascent.

 

[iointerrupt]

My gas planning says I can do a full and safe ascent with a stressed SAC from 100 feet if I have 700 psi.

In actual practice, this will never happen. On a normal dive to 100ft, you'll run out of bottom time well before you get anywhere near 700psi. If you have 700psi at 100ft, it's almost by definition because some other emergency situation has occurred.

But I think the answer to your question was already stated: DMs donate early and often, because keeping an anxious diver from becoming a panic'ed diver, is well worth the hassle. And this choice by DMs, has almost no bearing on how the rest of us plan or execute dives.

 

[DanBMW]

You donate air if it is "needed" and at that point both of you surface. Generally donated air is not done to extend a dive which to me seems a very bad practice.

 

[DrWilliam]

In actual practice, this will never happen. On a normal dive to 100ft, you'll run out of bottom time well before you get anywhere near 700psi. If you have 700psi at 100ft, it's almost by definition because some other emergency situation has occurred.

But I think the answer to your question was already stated: DMs donate early and often, because keeping an anxious diver from becoming a panic'ed diver, is well worth the hassle. And this choice by DMs, has almost no bearing on how the rest of us plan or execute dives.

True. BUT, on a multilevel dive it is possible, on nitrox, to be at 60 feet, be within NDL, and panic when you realize you're at 700 psi and are supposed to be on boat with 500 psi.

 

[scubadada]

I am trying to understand this. Are you saying that the correct way to respond is not to have to respond?

Are you saying that if I have planned my dive appropriately and have plenty of air, but someone else did not plan appropriately and ran out, I should refuse to donate because they did not plan their dive properly? If someone who is put of air comes to me for air, I should refuse to give it and tell them to do a CESA?

Of course not, what stupid sh!t.

 

[DrWilliam]

In reading responses I guess I'm running into the issues of:
1. people aren't gas planning and don't have turn / ascend pressures planned
2. people don't know the difference between LOA (my definition being behind the gas plan) and actual OOA (no breathing gas is coming when I try to breathe from my regulator).

So, I'll raise the question for discussion: WHAT is the definition of Low On Air? For hell's sake there is a PADI hand signal for it! So what's the definition when you give it????

 

[boulderjohn]

Of course not, what stupid sh!t.

Funny, when you wrote,

I don't think donating air is the correct response in any situation. I'm old school, plan your dive.

I thought you meant that donating air is never the correct response in any situation.

I must have misunderstood, so I guess that does make me a stupid sh!t. I am apparently losing my reading comprehension in my old age, so I guess I did deserve that personal attack.

 

[boulderjohn]

No you are definitely misunderstanding the discussion. Yes, if someone, anyone, give an OOA signal donate immediately. I am exploring the situation / question of whether there are situations where one should start donating when the other diver is LOA but ok.

No, I understand. If you read what I wrote in post #21, you will see what I I said about that.

You don't seem to understand that what I posted in this case was a response to someone saying there is never a correct time to donate air.

 

[scubadada]

If someone is out of air with the cylinder that they choose to use, they should end the dive and ascend

Other than Coz, this is a given

 

[DrWilliam]

If someone is out of air with the cylinder that they choose to use, they should end the dive and ascend

Other than Coz, this is a given

Not clear what you're saying here. They should CESA immediately? Or do a donated air ascent? What is Coz? The discussion is about sharing air and whether to do so when diver realizes they are low or signal buddy low and ascend until OOA. Another question is when should OOA be declared - when no breath from regulator or when a certain psi is reached.