When should a Rescue course be taken

[Fitzy]

I agree with this too. The AOW course is little more than a joke IMO. To combine that with Rescue would be a great idea. (On a side note this is my 500th post - so at least on SB I could probably try for the Rescue Surfer cert!!!)

I am just about to do my advanced course after 25 dives. i need to do the aow course so i can go on to do my rescue course. However if its no more tha n a joke do i really need to do it? esp at a cost of $300, aust . Will I learn nothing from the aow course.? Would welome any advice on this as if i can do rescue without aow i can save my self some hard earmed cash.

 

[Kim]

I am just about to do my advanced course after 25 dives. i need to do the aow course so i can go on to do my rescue course. However if its no more tha n a joke do i really need to do it? esp at a cost of $300, aust . Will I learn nothing from the aow course.? Would welome any advice on this as if i can do rescue without aow i can save my self some hard earmed cash.

IMO (and only mine) there is little that the AOW course actually teaches anyone. It is more of an 'experience' course which allows new divers to get a look at more advanced diving than they did in OW. It doesn't teach any new skills. It is however (as you point out) necessary to go further under the PADI system. It does also expose new divers to different things than they did in OW. Again IMO it was a fun course - but of all the courses that I've done (not that many) it was the least important to my diving skills. On the other hand I think - as I posted - that it would be very worth while coupled with the Rescue course in the same package. As it stands now inside of the PADI training - you have to do it to go further.

 

[downunderjenn]

Yes, OW divers need dives and experience before they task load in a rescue situation.

Rescue class is appropriately placed after OW and AOW. AOW is a joke. I'm a PADI certified DM, and for the life of me could not figure out what AOW helps you with besides a few navigational skills. I read all the material, some of it supplementary, interesting boat terms. What did it teach me as a diver? Well, I had about 40 dives at that point, was getting the hang of things and took AOW. I see watching the OW student that jumps into AOW, or the OW student that didn't dive for two years take AOW, how AOW is meaningful. It's a safety stop before Rescue. This is my conclusion. AOW reintroduces divers to diving in a safe way, a little more than a review, so as not to bore divers that dive flat out. Also, divers that continue to AOW, are showing an interest in furthering their knowledge. They might actually invest enough to take rescue class at this point. They realize more training is needed, but yes, AOW is a dull class. It's really a safety stop to ensure everyone has a certain amount of experience and has checked in as following procedures.

Now, Rescue should not be taught in conjunction with OW, because it would be a LESS effective class were it taught to someone completely new to diving. Lets not forget we at one point knew nothing about diving. It was a way to go underwater and we didn't know how it worked. OW is a handful. Divers should cautiously dive after OW. They laugh at the 60ft max dive limit PADI recommends, because they think they're full divers. They have beginners licenses is all. I got my driver's license and didn't touch a car for a year. Did that make me a good driver? No, I crashed my work's van and totalled the car in front of me and damaged the car in front of them. The AOW "allows" you to dive to the full rec limit of 130', because you have some experience at this point.

Some people take the OW class, go to the Caribbean for a week and that's it. People deserve their freedom of choice. Should they choose to only take OW, they are aware of the risks. They sign waivers, are told of the dangers, and don't care often until they need something to blame for an accident. Some people know it is better to invest, be smart, research. As I said in another thread, get in your pool, look at your gear, try it on, check out rental gear, ask questions, dive in the lake with a DM, take a refresher, breathe up a tank just to see how it feels on the surface, take our free Dive Training Magazines. I think people should choose the program for them. DIR may be good for some people, putting people through extended training, but others may want a different approach. PADI worked well for me. I pick up on information quickly and ask LOTS of questions. I wanted my freedom, and I wanted to learn for myself. I don't react well to bullying or do this or that.

Anyhow, I agree with the order in which Rescue is taught. It isn't for everyone. Here's an example of someone that refuses more training: My dad. He has a DM for a daughter and refuses to even go diving in the pool before he takes his Caribbean trip for the first time in 10 years. The last one was with me, and it didn't go well either. He left me 200 yds after bleeding off some of my air because a 14 yr old girl doesn't breath a lot of air. I was in an OOA situation, and did a normal ascent w/o training. 15 min later, he finally surfaces and then realizes I'd been at the surface, not caring one way or the other. So, during his Caribbean trip, his 15 yr old fins snap, the DM lends him fins, he's terribly overweighted, his wetsuit chokes his neck, he didn't rinse his new mask with toothpaste and it fogs incessantly so he can't see the entire time, and he says it's his best diver ever. Go figure That would have been my absolute worst dive. He even complained that they made him take a DM, and with his umpteen yr old OW cert boasts of "cave" dives he used to make. Sounds outrageous huh? His choice. He's been told.

 

[HammerNoMore]

Some people take the OW class, go to the Caribbean for a week and that's it. People deserve their freedom of choice.

My opinion is that without rescue skills a diver shouldn't really be diving on his/her own. I think the "resort course" or PADI Scuba Diver cert covers this niche quite well. People who just want to go dive for a week and don't want to learn rescue can do that, they just have to be supervised by a professional.

Should they choose to only take OW, they are aware of the risks. They sign waivers, are told of the dangers, and don't care often until they need something to blame for an accident.

However, I've never signed a waiver that said "I understand that the diver you randomly buddy me with on the boat probably won't be able to rescue me if I have a problem." Diving is generally a buddy sport. As I've said, you do both yourself and your buddy a disservice by not taking rescue.

There's another thread going on right now bashing people who won't dive with new divers. If the reason for that is that the diver is not rescue certified and might not be able to save their buddy, I honestly don't see a problem with that logic.

Anyhow, I agree with the order in which Rescue is taught. It isn't for everyone. Here's an example of someone that refuses more training: My dad. He has a DM for a daughter and refuses to even go diving in the pool before he takes his Caribbean trip for the first time in 10 years. The last one was with me, and it didn't go well either. He left me 200 yds after bleeding off some of my air because a 14 yr old girl doesn't breath a lot of air. I was in an OOA situation, and did a normal ascent w/o training. 15 min later, he finally surfaces and then realizes I'd been at the surface, not caring one way or the other. So, during his Caribbean trip, his 15 yr old fins snap, the DM lends him fins, he's terribly overweighted, his wetsuit chokes his neck, he didn't rinse his new mask with toothpaste and it fogs incessantly so he can't see the entire time, and he says it's his best diver ever. Go figure That would have been my absolute worst dive. He even complained that they made him take a DM, and with his umpteen yr old OW cert boasts of "cave" dives he used to make. Sounds outrageous huh? His choice. He's been told.

I have to disagree. He should not be allowed to make the choice to put his dive buddy in danger.

James

 

[DORSETBOY]

I worry that in the admittedly rare circumstance that a diver without rescue training under pro supervision has to help out the supervisor, they wont be able to help or prob wont do so in the best way.. I agree tha you cant expect an ow to learn all the rescue skills that are done on the rescue diver course but maybe there's ground somewhere in the middle?

 

[DORSETBOY]

Just to cite an instance of the point I raised, an instructor Iknow leading fun divers was knocked unconcious by a triggerfish, know this is an extreme example but it's the first that came to mind... thankfully she had 2 experienced dmts to help but without them an already serious instance could have proved fatal for the instructor involved.

 

[zboss]

IMO (and only mine) there is little that the AOW course actually teaches anyone. It is more of an 'experience' course which allows new divers to get a look at more advanced diving than they did in OW. It doesn't teach any new skills.

While you are correct in saying that it is an experience class, to say that they don't teach anymore skills is not correct. Thats like saying that a college history course doesn't teach anymore than a high school course.

If a new diver spends a little more time in the water between OW and AOW they will surely come up with a bunch of new questions about how equipment works, what dangers are out there, procedures for dealing with emergencies, etc.. that they couldn't possibly have had the imagination to ask during their OW class. During the AOW class you are free to ask questions and explore concerns with your instructors that don't necessarily have to do with the topics covered in class.

Now let's talk about skills... I loved the idea of being able to improve my navigation skills, my bouyancy skills, my search and recovery skills, and my wreck appreciation skills under the supervision of an instrcutor that I trusted and respected. I left that class knowing a lot more than I did going in.

As far as the Rescue Class is concerned... PADI's opinion is that you should teach self-reliance first - let's face it PADI often needs to instruct people who wouldn't know what to do if they spilled chocolate milk on themselves, since that is what we expect here in america - one person to clean my clothes and another to pick up after my mistake.

What was said about Rescue being included in the AOW is probably true. I do believe that it should be included in the AOW class.

 

[DORSETBOY]

I agree with zboss, as long as the instructor teaching the aow takes the time to ask the student what they are looking to get out of the aow and the student diver isn't pushed into a particular spec that isn't relevant to them.

 

[Sylvain]

OK for all of you that are so qualified so good put yourself in a position that you have to go out with a new diver 4-5 dives and something happens to you, are you going to be happy if your buddy lets you drown and die because he does not know how to help you lets face it this is not a SWIMMING POOL where other people can help you if nobody else is around you will be in big...... Or will you be happy to be alive because your BUDDY was there to help you. Lets not forget that an accident can happen at anytim so why do we have to wait to get skill that will help to save a life. Everytime an accident happen everybody start talking "what if or maybee..." I have been teaching the military for a long time and if a person can remember 5% of what you teach him it might be that 5% that will save YOUR LIFE I am not saying that everybody will remember 5% but I will at least know that my BUDDY can at least try to help if it is req and it is something that you will be able to work on and refresh before each dive. By the way why should we teach someone on the basic course the lost of contact drill if we don't teach him how to help that person once he finds him????????

 

[DORSETBOY]

sylvain, I agree with you, I think a lot of other people do to a certain degree from reading their posts!