Whats wrong with DIR

[doole]

MHK once bubbled...


...when DIR initially came onto the interent scene it was discussed with curiosity, but now currently it is so misunderstood because some just want to look for holes in the system rather then look for the benefits..

Absolute, pristine truth. Thanks.

Those are the people who have had a knee-jerk reaction to the 'commandos', which are even easier to get sucked in by than other forms of troll, IMO. They are largely responsible for the great majority of the misunderstandings.

FWIW The benefit of hashing this out yet again has been tangible - for me, at least.

 

[O-ring]

Genesis once bubbled...


Statistics say you're wrong - at least half of all divers admit to solo diving at least part of the time, and even more admit to "SOB" diving (Same-ocean buddies). In fact, the majority of "buddy teams" are SOB divers, and very few divers see ANYTHING wrong with that.

Spearfishing is, almost by definition, "SOB" diving if you are paired with another spearfisherman or even if the other diver is just there as a "watcher" or "spotter." At least it is if you're shooting "real" fish. I will concede that if your "spearfishing" consists of poking flounder, you can do that while diving "DIR".

Anyone who thinks overwise needs to come spear a 4' AJ offshore Destin with me, and then try to keep up when the fish takes off like a scooter with a rocket booster on the back - and me in tow. I'll provide you with the boat ride, the sites with the AJs, and will provide my own gun. All you have to do is meet the "DIR standards" for being my buddy while I shoot the fish.

If you can meet the definition of being a "buddy" to me in those conditions, you're not a diver - you're Superman.

Solo diving and SOB diving are not DIR... (although Spectre already kinda pointed that out)

Are we done yet?

 

[Spectre]

Genesis once bubbled...
In fact, the majority of "buddy teams" are SOB divers, and very few divers see ANYTHING wrong with that.

Very well then. I misspoke.

All you have to do is meet the "DIR standards" for being my buddy while I shoot the fish.
[...]
If you can meet the definition of being a "buddy" to me in those conditions, you're not a diver - you're Superman.

And this invalidates DIR as a system... why?

 

[cornfed]

O-ring once bubbled...
Are we done yet?

Nope, everyone's back from lunch and gearing up for round two.

I'm going to get some popcorn. Want some?

 

[Genesis]

And this invalidates DIR as a system... why?

What I, and others, said is that DIR simply cannot be done for many types of diving that people want to do.

Side-mount (or no-mount!) cave diving is an example; you can't meet the "DIR" prescriptions for those dives. It cannot be done. Nor can it be done for a lot of other types of overhead diving unless you have an unlimited budget, which by defintiion, recreational divers do not possess.

Spearfishing in most cases is yet another example. Spearfishing in the FredT case is DEFINITELY an example, but you don't have to be anywhere near that extreme to be unable to meet their definition. There's no way you can spearfish "DIR" the way I spearfish, and I definitely am not up to the "Helldiver's" methods - nor would I attempt what they do. IMHO, they're certifyable and I'm not talking about their diving cards!

DIR as a system is fine for those who decide to use it. However, the statistics are not in regarding whether or not it is "safer" or "better" as a dive system. It is different, but statistically, the claims that are often made for it simply do not hold up under examination.

Among other things, there are very, very few fatalities annually in this sport. In fact, all things considered, its FAR safer to go diving than it is to go skiing, and you're FAR more likely to cap yourself driving to the boat than while actually diving from it.

This low incidence of trouble in the first place makes it almost impossible to quantify safety advantages.

What may be able to be said is that it makes diving more "comfortable", but again, by who's definition? By the person who adopts the system? Ok. But that's pretty damn subjective, is it not?

 

[Spectre]

Genesis once bubbled...
What I, and others, said is that DIR simply cannot be done for many types of diving that people want to do.

The thread is, and has always been, about "what things are wrong with DIR". Sidemount was brought up, but of course that doesn't apply. Spearfishing was brought up, and I wanted to try and figure out where the problem with spearfishing is and if that problem can be corrected.

But you'd rather just list off everything that isn't DIR as evidence of what is wrong with DIR. that's a rediculous argument.

The whole point is there is nothing specific about 'spearfishing' that makes it intrinsically non DIR. It's that there are risks that people choose to accept rather than look to see if there is a safer way to do them.

Ehh.. nevermind. There is a fundamental point that you people can't seem to grasp.

 

[detroit diver]

Hey Genesis,

Have you ever taken a GUE course? If so, which one?

 

[chrpai]

Spectre once bubbled...


The whole point is there is nothing specific about 'spearfishing' that makes it intrinsically non DIR. It's that there are risks that people choose to accept rather than look to see if there is a safer way to do them.

So would the point of DIR be to find the safest way possible to spearfish, or would you say that spearfishing's risk is unacceptable and therefore not DIR?

 

[Spectre]

chrpai once bubbled...
So would the point of DIR be to find the safest way possible to spearfish, or would you say that spearfishing's risk is unacceptable and therefore not DIR?

I don't understand the intricacies of spearfishing enough to answer that question, but basically yes... if you can find a way to spearfish without violating the principles of DIR, then you can spearfish DIR. If you can't, then you accept that it's not DIR and make your decision on if the risk is worth the reward.

Now why people use their decisions that the risk is worth the reward as evidence to discredit DIR is beyond me. I make my risk vs. reward decisions, say I'm not DIR, and move on.

 

[Genesis]

Now why people use their decisions that the risk is worth the reward as evidence to discredit DIR is beyond me. I make my risk vs. reward decisions, say I'm not DIR, and move on.

Because the DIR zealots, of which there are a number of them on this board, have continually pontificated that:

1. DIR is a "safer" way to dive (unsupported by the statistical evidence in the record, yet it is continually claimed without justification.)

2. DIR is "more comfortable" (unsupported by the evidence as well, and patently false in that rigid adherance to dogma is basically ALWAYS less comfortable than not doing so, in at least some fashion.)

3. DIR is a "better" way to dive (unsupportable and a void claim on its face for vaugeness.)

I don't care how someone chooses to dive. I do very much care when they use their view of how they wish to dive in an attempt to force me to dive that way (or not dive at all!), no matter how obliquely that position is presented in an attempt to keep it off the radar.