Whats wrong with DIR

[MikeFerrara]

Spectre once bubbled...


Not correct.

"As to side mount configuration, bear in mind there is a DIR way to do it, which I'll discuss later, but the important idea to recognize is that side mounting adds an added complexity to the dive, which is only to be done when necessary."

http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=195516&#post195516

Lets put it this way. I've never heard of a DIR team exploring systems like are being explored in Kentuckyand other locations in the east. I've never heard of GUE teaching sidemount. I've never seen any mention of it in any of their texts.

 

[O-ring]

Why get involved in a thread with this dude anyway...he obviously has an agenda and I think Spectre hit it on the head. Someone much wiser than I once said: "You can't teach a pig to sing. It only frustrates you and annoys the pig."

Does Chris look annoyed yet?

 

[MikeFerrara]

Don Burke once bubbled...
Not correct. You've fallen victim to DIR commandos who only know a small portion of the system.

That's funny. You have no idea. LOL. I've discussed DIR sidemount with MHK in an old thread and I think a couple pm's a while ago. They do very little sidemount and very little in side mount systems.

Perhaps, but I think it is based on misinformation and you'll find it to be a blind alley.I've looked into NEST. Their techniques are much like the DIR guys and gals in Europe are using.You are confusing DIR with WKPP. While they are related, they are not in lockstep. That's why I referred you to the projects in Europe.

I'm not confusing anything with anything. Please explain how the procedures of NEST or any other sidemount exploration team is similar to DIR. I checked out your link and I didn't see any reference to side mount or nomount. All I saw were doubles and Halcyon rebreathers.

DIR has considerably more flex in it than the DIR commandos know of.

I'm not sure who you're refering to here so it's hard to comment.

Again, the WKPP is not all there is to DIR.Actually, I think it is just what the people on that project are willing to bite off. I was at a talk by JJ and he said it is a massive project that has many side projects.

Do you have an example of a DIR team exploring a typical (small, no vis, lots of dry cave to traverse to get to it) sump environment? {B]

The fact that many other organizations have failed to safely explore it gives a very focused operation a leg up on gaining access. The need for scooters and rebreathers gives the gearheads more of an advantage. I'm pretty sure I would stay focused on a single project if I was in Trey's (and now Casey's) position.That's why I referred you to the projects in Europe. Not all of the flexibility in DIR is revealed by WKPP. [/B]

Be careful here. Who failed to explore it safely? Many other projects? Which ones?

I only know of one fatality and that was an aged scientist on I think the Wakulla 2 project who grabed a rebreather and went for an unauthorized dive in the basin. He died in shallow water outside the cave. The incident seems unrelated to the project. No more related than the wkpp member who died on a cave dive last year. every one was quick to point out that it wasn't a wkpp sanctioned dive. Do you know of other fatalities? Wakulla access was originally obtained before GI was director or the term DIR existed. It was also before they could make the claim of zero fatalities.

Maybe you could just make this easier by explaining what flexible aspects of DIR allow for the exploration of small, no vis sumps and how. Give us some insight into the equipment configuration used and how team procedures are adapted to a situation where you can't see your own finger tips.

 

[cornfed]

O-ring once bubbled...
Does Chris look annoyed yet?

I think he enjoys it.

 

[MikeFerrara]

cornfed once bubbled...


Well then they're obviously not that important... duh!

LOL And neither are the folks who will flood or dry up when things go wrong with the system.

 

[cornfed]

chrpai once bubbled...
OK so far the only two "legitimate" questions you guys have offered up is:
"What is DIR?"
To which simplistic answers are given.
Any further questioning of the system is deemed illegitmate.

Chris, what do you want? Honestly, I don't see what you're after. I've made several posts explaining the benefits of "DIR skills" and how they might apply to different situations. I've talked about why a frog kick is useful in a murky silty quarry as well on a reef gin clear reef. I (along with others) have explained why a long hose might not be strictly necessary for NDL OW "rec" diving but does provide some benefits. Recently I gave you an example where being able to reach and shutdown your valve would be useful for a single tank NDL OW diver. These things are lost in the noise and you (collectively) just let them zip by. Instead of discussing these examples you cry that questioning the system isn't allowed and run off to a corner to sulk.

Again, Chris what do you want?

 

[cornfed]

MikeFerrara once bubbled...
LOL And neither are the folks who will flood or dry up when things go wrong with the system.

You can't deny that the WKPP, EKPP and other DIR groups have done some amazing this. But to say that they're the only people capable of such feats is silly.

 

[FredT]

At least in the program as far as I've read.

Spearfishing in bottomless water around obstructions (oil rigs) requires the same streamlined gear configuration and take only what you need mindset, but the dependance of the DIR system on a buddy for help is simply wishful thinking here. Once a large fish is speared there is no way a buddy can keep up with the sleighride! Compare it to one buddy instantly hanging on to a 10 HP DPV, while the other buddy swims to keep up.

The other items are the needs for tools to provide an immediate attitude adjustment to the fish, and the need to be able to discard any and all gear instantly in case of entanglement in the miles of fish line and netting often draped on these structures when the fish starts a cable looping turn. If you get tied to a rig with 1/8" SST cable you're dead unless your buddy finally stumbles across you while you are still breathing and can untangle you. Cutting 1/8" cable underwater is not practical on a single tank. Dual tanks greatly increase entanglement risks with the added air not need for the short dives on each rig. The best bet is to be able to keep out of the cable's way.

While I doubt the DIR philosopy couldn't be stretched to cover these conditions, I haven't seen any discussion on it yet.

FT

 

[Genesis]

There's no way that spearing in those conditions could be done as "DIR".

Among other things, a unified dive team by their definition means that you can rely on your buddy at all times for an instant gas infusion.

Second, spearfishing, from what I understand, instantly brands you as a "stroke" among the DIR crowd. At least it has among those who have thought that perhaps I was inclined to lean that way (based on seeing my gear configuration) until the speargun came out

Let's see.... should I care about being called a "stroke", or would I like to shoot myself some dinner.... gee, tough decision - NOT!

I don't know about the rig diving stuff you guys do over there. I'm up for the spearing, but I'm not at all sure I like the idea of shooting 40+lb fish in what amounts to a bottomless, obstruction/entanglement-filled environment. In that environment I certainly understand the use of the "riding rig" you've propounded upon a few times.....

 

[O-ring]

...if it's DIR or not? You love to shoot fish and shooting fish on a rig is some of the most challenging stuff I have read about (Fontova's book)! Why does it matter if it is DIR or not...why try to fit it into a system that it obviously does not fit?

DIR is team oriented diving, skills, equipment, etc. and this is not...but who cares? Shooting 15' sharks at 250' wearing disco clothes is still hella cool, IMHO..