What would you do: Molested at 100' by an OOA Diver

[danvolker]

Totally agree.... and the reality was, in the 60's and 70's, when divers were using the J valve, and had the much more inclusive underwater survival skills set....when the J valve tanks would suddenly no longer deliver air...the diver at 60 or 120 feet, tries to get a breath and none is available--with the instant 700 psi they get with the click of the valve, the diver would often then elect to SHOOT one more fish, or get that one more lobster, and then expect to be doing their free ascent without any air left in the tank....this was so normal or common, that it really was a basic skill--and they did not "die like flies" because of all these free ascents...

 

[EastEndDiver]

DCBC has pretty much summed up my sentiments about the present level of diving certification.

Some of the things we were required to do for certification was there just to instill confidence which made you realize that there is a solution to almost any problem.We had to learn how to breath off a tank without a Regulator and go from tank to tank in the pool without a mask on doing so for 10-15 minutes.Complete ditch and don,switching all gear with another diving while underwater to name a few.CESA's at depth in open water was another which could save your life back then.

My Basic OW course took 12 weeks twice a week for 3 hours per session 1/2 pool and 1/2 classroom ,36 hours .

Things have been dumbed down considerably.

 

[MrChen]

(This actually brings to mind something that kind of shocked me when this topic came up in the "Instructors arguing with Other Instructors" forum, that apparently some instructors are unaware that one can get an additional breath or two from an 'empty' tank on ascent from depth due to falling ambient pressure.

My OW instructor blasted someone for removing their regulator on the CESA exercise and was very adamant that you could possibly get another breath or 2 from it as you ascended. He called the entire class to the surface to lecture this before descending and continuing the exercise. I'm sure his reaction stuck in everyone's mind, it did mine.

 

[tomfcrist]

Or more surprisingly how can someone, who is working professionally to protect divers under their care, not think being able to do this is, at least in some sense, not a basic requirement? There might be not particular reason for divers to be able to do this nowadays, but how is it OK that current instructors are not sure of being able to do something that used to required for divers with a basic certification back in the day?

Most instructors that I know can do a CESA from 100', but in the circumstances described in this thread, a CESA would not be an appropriate action. The risk of being drowned by the panicked diver must be mitigated. If that means breaking their face underwater, so be it.

People who dive without SPGs (re)learn this fact of getting an extra breath from an "empty" tank on ascent on every dive, now that J-valves are gone.)

People that deliberately run themselves OOA are morons. J valves are not "gone", they are still widely available and indefinately rebuildable. To dive with no SPG and no J valve, PLANNING to go OOA and make a Controlled EMERGENCY Swimming Ascent is just plain stupid........and you cant fix stupid.

 

[James R]

People that deliberately run themselves OOA are morons. J valves are not "gone", they are still widely available and indefinately rebuildable. To dive with no SPG and no J valve, PLANNING to go OOA and make a Controlled EMERGENCY Swimming Ascent is just plain stupid........and you cant fix stupid.

Agreed. In this case stupid will probably fix itself eventually.

 

[danvolker]

No argument about purposely running out of air....in the context of the 60's, the typical diver was more of an adventurer, they had much less concern for potential dangers--mostly because they would KNOW they were up to any challenge, and could handle anything ( mindset, I am not saying they absolutely were...some were
Also, there was no "culture" of smart behaviors.....In as much as many on this board get upset over what DIR represents....it is a clear guideline to what is smart to do or plan for diving....Today, even if you have never heard of DIR, there is an underlying culture from all the diving of the last 30 years, that has been fashioned into a sort of a "DIR" by PADI and NAUI and instructors in general...the cultural do's and don'ts in diving....which of course includes NEVER RUNNING OOA!!!! If you were diving in the 60's or early 70's, there just was not really anything like this--the closest thing you had to DIR or PADI attitudes on safe practices, was what you could have gotten from watching Sea Hunt and modeling your behaviors after Lloyd Bridges

 

[DCBC]

People that deliberately run themselves OOA are morons. J valves are not "gone", they are still widely available and indefinately rebuildable. To dive with no SPG and no J valve, PLANNING to go OOA and make a Controlled EMERGENCY Swimming Ascent is just plain stupid........and you cant fix stupid.

Purposefully running OOA at 100' was part on my diver training with the Navy and a prelude to doing a SCUBA doff and don in 100 FSW (which is more scary on the way back down than it is the emergency ascent). I know what you're saying Tom, but I can't help but think that Divers today are much too dependent on technology. If there's one thing that I've learned is that every piece of man-made equipment will fail in time (regardless of excellent maintenance). I even experienced a malfunction with a $8M Saturation System a few years back that almost cost the lives of 8 Divers. Divers should dive within their safe diving envelope (SDE). I believe more focus should be given on this during diver training.

 

[danvolker]

Purposefully running OOA at 100' was part on my diver training with the Navy and a prelude to doing a SCUBA doff and don in 100 FSW (which is more scary on the way back down than it is the emergency ascent). I know what you're saying Tom, but I can't help but think that Divers today are much too dependent on technology. If there's one thing that I've learned is that every piece of man-made equipment will fail in time (regardless of excellent maintenance). I even experienced a malfunction with a $8M Saturation System a few years back that almost cost the lives of 8 Divers. Divers should dive within their safe diving envelope (SDE). I believe more focus should be given on this during diver training.

Wow! I had not heard of a 100 foot deep doff and don!!! While I can do a 90 foot drop freediving, it is my absolute max....Of course , if you know that there will be air waiting for you at 100 feet...the extra 10 feet should not be that bothersome--the real issue is being certain you can make it back to the surface for your next breath--so 100 would actually feel pretty inviting all of a sudden

Being able to just get down to just 60 or 70 feet without a tank, means having real freediving skills--and that leaves out probably 99% of the scuba divers in the world--instructors included.

 

[DCBC]

...Of course , if you know that there will be air waiting for you at 100 feet....

The visibility was only 10-15 feet, so we were able to retain mask & fins. There was a light beacon attached to the valve that you activated before ascent, so you could hopefully find it on descent, but this wasn't visible when you were on the surface. It scared the *rap out of me! To start a descent into cold dark water and not be able to see your target...

In my case, I was around 75' deep before I located the flashing light, off to my right. It took me some time to get to it, as I had drifted a bit off the mark when I was on the surface. They had safety divers around the area, but the bubbles were disorienting and negatively affected visibility. My tanks were a welcome sight and although I had a long way to go in the course, it was the first-time I dared to think that I might actually be able to complete it. It's funny how things you don't think about for years come back like they were yesterday... LOL

 

[EastEndDiver]

Ahhhh the days of a plastic back packs ,for those who wanted comfort, and web harness's with a steel 72 and an off the rack wetsuit with a horse collar that had a CO2 cartridge for emergencies.

Anyone remember the old Bend-Matic I think it was made by Scuba-Pro with Agent X to monitor nitrogen? Bend-Matic was the nick name because they were pretty much useless.