What would you do: Molested at 100' by an OOA Diver

[dumpsterDiver]

I have always said I wouldn't risk my life for another diver unless I liked them enough to kiss them on the lips. If I had enough air for both of us, I would try to calm the diver and we would go up…hoping s/he wouldn't suck the tank dry. If it was me or the other diver, I would have to rip off their mask and swim away.

We should reserve enough air to get ourselves and another diver to the surface. If diving in a 100 feet, even a little bit of shared air could get you from 100 to 40 feet in a 60 seconds; and then from there,,, most people could make it, if slightly buoyant.

 

[CamG]

Frist thing make sure he has air!
Then get loose of him or her and get alternate.
If they did not calm down I would position myself in a tank cradle away from their reach and control the ascent from there.
Have done this in practice at depth and at the surface with panicked diver in a real situation.

I have to stress that I do not remain in front of any diver unless I know them extremely well but rarely dive singles only with no redundancy.
If it is a stranger I am in the cradle position every time.
You can not prevent a run away ascent if they are clawing the crap out of you or ridding you up!

Been involved in a dive situation that ended up being a controlled ascent from 110' by a panicked diver at 30'-25' feet this diver fought away from the DM to bolt to the surface.
He went to the chamber as a precaution but after examining the computer profile he never broke a safe ascent rate.
The profile was cleared by DAN and Padi both in this case the DM saved his rear by controlling the ascent.
It is possible but when they are full blown panic it is tough to keep them subdued and impossible from the front!

CamG

 

[supergaijin]

It is possible but when they are full blown panic it is tough to keep them subdued and impossible from the front!

Not to worry- apparently they calm down at the end of the ascent.

. But once the OOA diver gets a reg in, and they are starting up, they usually calm down pretty quick. It takes a long time to get from 100 feet to the surface, and the OOA diver is usually pretty relaxed by the time we get to the safety stop hang tank, and are more than happy to switch to that reg.

OOA ascent is not the same as trying to control a panicked diver. I have only been in this game since 2006 and in that time I have seen exactly one panicked ascent from about 90'. I was at least 5m away from the diver and had no chance to get them under control. I have seen OOA a few times- either through catastrophic gear failure or user error. Each time was done 'by the book'.

As for a 4min exhalation... I also would love to see that one. Even sitting in front of a computer screen, let alone underwater, not to mention just being 'assaulted' by an OOA diver and wishing I could give them "a knife to the neck.... immediately"..... I think 4 mins might be a bit of a stretch.

 

[fnfalman]

If a dive takes my reg and bear hugs me, they are getting head butted. If they have no concern for my life, I have no concern for theirs.

And people made fun of me for carrying a pig sticker underwater.

I'd knife'em if they were to bear hug me and steal my reg at 100-ft depth.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

As for a 4min exhalation... I also would love to see that one. Even sitting in front of a computer screen, let alone underwater, not to mention just being 'assaulted' by an OOA diver and wishing I could give them "a knife to the neck.... immediately"..... I think 4 mins might be a bit of a stretch.

... much of what's been said in this thread is a bit of a stretch ... either that or there's a bunch of people on ScubaBoard I hope to never be on a dive boat with ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[BDSC]

I'm never gonna worry about any of this. After they find George Zimmerman not guilty, I'm going to get him to dive with my group and watch out for us. You screw with any of us, he'll pop a cap in your ace.

 

[oldschoolto]

I was told to fight like hell and use my BFK.......

Jim....

 

[Bratface]

We should reserve enough air to get ourselves and another diver to the surface. If diving in a 100 feet, even a little bit of shared air could get you from 100 to 40 feet in a 60 seconds; and then from there,,, most people could make it, if slightly buoyant.

While I agree with you on this, and plan my dives to have enough reserved air, I am not going to let a panicked diver drown me.

 

[beanojones]

While I agree with you on this, and plan my dives to have enough reserved air, I am not going to let a panicked diver drown me.

Which is kind of the point.

There are many ways to handle it:
0. Not help in certain situations
1. React to the situation in the tried and true, approach from the rear etc.
1a. React to the panicked OOA diver aggressively potentially increasing his/her chances of injury
2. Raise one own skill level to the point where an OOA diver in need can do whatever, and one can still handle it.

(I choose 2. But then, I do this for a living.)

I am not going to drown just because I am without a reg underwater. Others may not be as confident, and knowing their own limits lets them decide what they will do

I have had a panicked diver do X to me (where X is just about anything one can imagine), and as a full-time dive professional, I feel like it's just part of what I am supposed to be able to handle. Of course, to get to where one can handle some X like losing a reg at 100 feet, and then getting bear hugged, one has to have practiced handling that situation by practicing CESAs in that situation.

While I think most divers think (appropriately) first of their own safety, there are different ways to ensure safety, and that first is the decision of whether to help or not. There are also different approaches to helping. I know from experience that while controlling a diver from the rear is the best play in terms of controlling the diver's body, it is not likely to work with a borderline panicked diver who will just expend effort trying to turn around to figure out what is going on. And there is almost no way to effectively manage an OOA diver in that position.

But then again once a borderline panicked diver faces us, they are probably going to doing something not so good to us. I am cool with that. Most people should rightly not be cool with that.

Remember the topic came up in first place because someone wanted to develop more confidence in their abilities in the water, especially when doing deep dives. Being able to consistently do CESAs from 100 feet/30 m of water will certainly make for a more confident deep diver. More confident, apparently, than many instructors who seem to doubt such a thing is possible.

(This topic, as may be obvious from some of the parenthetical comments made, has been 'discussed' in the "Instructors arguing with other Instructors" forum.)

There are some of us, however, who know that CESAs from 100 feet are not just theoretically, but actually, possible, because we have done them. At least three of us in this thread, if my count is right.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

Which is kind of the point.

There are many ways to handle it:
0. Not help in certain situations
1. React to the situation in the tried and true, approach from the rear etc.
1a. React to the panicked OOA diver aggressively potentially increasing his/her chances of injury
2. Raise one own skill level to the point where an OOA diver in need can do whatever, and one can still handle it.

(I choose 2. But then, I do this for a living.)

I am not going to drown just because I am without a reg underwater. Others may not be as confident, and knowing their own limits lets them decide what they will do

I have had a panicked diver do X to me (where X is just about anything one can imagine), and as a full-time dive professional, I feel like it's just part of what I am supposed to be able to handle. Of course, to get to where one can handle some X like losing a reg at 100 feet, and then getting bear hugged, one has to have practiced handling that situation by practicing CESAs in that situation.

While I think most divers think (appropriately) first of their own safety, there are different ways to ensure safety, and that first is the decision of whether to help or not. There are also different approaches to helping. I know from experience that while controlling a diver from the rear is the best play in terms of controlling the diver's body, it is not likely to work with a borderline panicked diver who will just expend effort trying to turn around to figure out what is going on. And there is almost no way to effectively manage an OOA diver in that position.

But then again once a borderline panicked diver faces us, they are probably going to doing something not so good to us. I am cool with that. Most people should rightly not be cool with that.

Remember the topic came up in first place because someone wanted to develop more confidence in their abilities in the water, especially when doing deep dives. Being able to consistently do CESAs from 100 feet/30 m of water will certainly make for a more confident deep diver. More confident, apparently, than many instructors who seem to doubt such a thing is possible.

(This topic, as may be obvious from some of the parenthetical comments made, has been 'discussed' in the "Instructors arguing with other Instructors" forum.)

There are some of us, however, who know that CESAs from 100 feet are not just theoretically, but actually, possible, because we have done them. At least three of us in this thread, if my count is right.

When are you gonna give us a video of you practicing these 100 ft ascents (while exhaling for 4 minutes)? It sure would go a long way in adding some credibility to your comments... better than telling us, over and over that you practice them.

If you don't have that video, maybe you could make a different one... showing how you practice the non breathing free ascents from 100 feet WHILE being bear hugged by another diver... How often do you practice this particular drill? Does it still take 4 minutes or do you come up faster ???