What would you do: Molested at 100' by an OOA Diver

[tomfcrist]

The fact is beano that you are far too sure of whatever abilities you may have. Yes, I CAN do a Cesa from 100', however I find the bubble formation risk not to be worth it.
Additionally, if you think you can handle ANY diver that steals your reg at 100' and bear hugs you, you are insane. I assure you that if we decided to "practice this" and I played panicked diver, that response would not work well for you.
The biggest hole in your 4 minute 100' ascent claim is that it assumes you recently inhaled. How would you respond if your regulator was ripped out of your mouth leaving you no access to another air source if it happened at the end of your exhale? You would DEFINATLY fight back.

Like I said before, they have no concern for my wellbeing, thus I will have none for theirs. Obviously once they drown ill bring them to the surface to attempt reviving, thus no worries about being sued for breach of duty.

 

[RJP]

If a dive takes my reg and bear hugs me, they are getting head butted. If they have no concern for my life, I have no concern for theirs.

Not sure what's worse...

1.) An instructor with 1,000 - 2,499 dives can't come up with a better resolution to this situation
2.) Twenty or so folks (including several other instructors) "Like" this approach

---------- Post added June 12th, 2013 at 10:09 PM ----------

And people made fun of me for carrying a pig sticker underwater.

I'd knife'em if they were to bear hug me and steal my reg at 100-ft depth.

Funny, I was wondering how long it would take for this particular response to show up. I actually had to check the "I'd head butt 'em" response to see if it was you, under the assumption that you couldn't reach your "pig sticker" while being bear-hugged.

 

[tomfcrist]

If a dive takes my reg and bear hugs me, they are getting head butted. If they have no concern for my life, I have no concern for theirs.

Not sure what's worse...

1.) An instructor with 1,000 - 2,499 dives can't come up with a better resolution to this situation
2.) Twenty or so folks (including several other instructors) "Like" this approach

What do you think is worse, 1 dead diver or two?

 

[Doc Harry]

No one is going to make me CESA from 100 feet... No one.

I think if someone was in such a panic that they had me in a death grip, then knocking off their mask would likely prompt them to release me.

 

[Pullmyfinger]

Not sure what's worse...

1.) An instructor with 1,000 - 2,499 dives can't come up with a better resolution to this situation
2.) Twenty or so folks (including several other instructors) "Like" this approach
---------- Post added June 12th, 2013 at 10:09 PM ----------



Funny, I was wondering how long it would take for this particular response to show up. I actually had to check the "I'd head butt 'em" response to see if it was you, under the assumption that you couldn't reach your "pig sticker" while being bear-hugged.

"If they have no concern for my life, I have no concern for theirs."

I have to say.....I agree with this line of thinking. Whether it's related to diving or not, this mind set is completely normal if you have any sense of self preservation.
This statement was made in response to a scenario of (bear hug and prevented him access to his AAS.)
. With that perspective in mind, I don't see anything wrong with this sentiment.

Cheers,
Mitch

 

[RJP]

Yep, thats a true "Jersey Boy" right there! BTW - where is Paladin? I need his input here... IIRC, something about "making them eat their mask"....

Never happen here in NJ - viz is so poor the OOA diver would never find you to steal your reg in the first place.

 

[EastEndDiver]

Never happen here in NJ - viz is so poor the OOA diver would never find you to steal your reg in the first place.

I have to disagree ,there was one diver who managed to find me at about 90' on the Oregon or the San Diego,forget which one, and grabbed my reg and would not let go.This was way back when we had no octopus and were lucky if we had a horse collar. Managed to make a free ascent while he breathed off MY reg.All hell broke loose back on the boat after that.

 

[Pullmyfinger]

Wow! It's hard to imagine that happening. I'm sure it probably takes a second or two for your mind to process that before (whatever) kicks in.

Cheers,
Mitch

 

[beanojones]

I think if someone was in such a panic that they had me in a death grip, then knocking off their mask would likely prompt them to release me.

Well, see when your hands are trapped... (Although I am sure I could bite their face to try and get their mask free, which brings us back to the Zombie Apocalypse Specialty Course).

I have to disagree ,there was one diver who managed to find me at about 90' on the Oregon or the San Diego,forget which one, and grabbed my reg and would not let go.This was way back when we had no octopus and were lucky if we had a horse collar. Managed to make a free ascent while he breathed off MY reg.All hell broke loose back on the boat after that.

Yeah this is kind of where I am with many responses to the topic. Everyone (every single certified diver) used to have to be able to do CESAs (even no gear ditch and dons) from arbitrary depths. Why is it even a thing that an active full time instructor is confident in their ability to do the same?

Or more surprisingly how can someone, who is working professionally to protect divers under their care, not think being able to do this is, at least in some sense, not a basic requirement? There might be not particular reason for divers to be able to do this nowadays, but how is it OK that current instructors are not sure of being able to do something that used to required for divers with a basic certification back in the day?

(This actually brings to mind something that kind of shocked me when this topic came up in the "Instructors arguing with Other Instructors" forum, that apparently some instructors are unaware that one can get an additional breath or two from an 'empty' tank on ascent from depth due to falling ambient pressure. As supportive as I am of the general move to easier certification courses for divers, it seems like instructors have to know this kind of stuff, and have to be out there getting experience in these things, and not just reading about them. But of course one cannot learn from experience that one gets an extra breath from an erstwhile empty tank on ascent without actually having an empty tank at depth, which no one is likely to do if they don't have confidence in doing a CESA from depth. And no closing a valve does not properly simulate an empty tank, though that's what we do in open water courses to simulate OOA. A empty pony similarly does quite simulate it either since the volume is much typically much less.

People who dive without SPGs (re)learn this fact of getting an extra breath from an "empty" tank on ascent on every dive, now that J-valves are gone.)

 

[DCBC]

...Everyone (every single certified diver) used to have to be able to do CESAs (even no gear ditch and dons) from arbitrary depths. Why is it even a thing that an active full time instructor is confident in their ability to do the same?

Yes this was and still is a requirement (in some programs). Because many divers today have become certified with a poor level of fitness and little or no swimming ability, a 100' CESA seems to be a Herculean task. Of course, it can be accomplished with a reasonable degree of fitness and a little practice.

...There might be not particular reason for divers to be able to do this nowadays, but how is it OK that current instructors are not sure of being able to do something that used to required for divers with a basic certification back in the day?

Unless you're diving with redundant gas, there is a reason to be able to do a CESA from your deepest depth on any dive (imo). Being an Instructor has nothing to do with it.

(This actually brings to mind something that kind of shocked me when this topic came up in the "Instructors arguing with Other Instructors" forum, that apparently some instructors are unaware that one can get an additional breath or two from an 'empty' tank on ascent from depth due to falling ambient pressure.

Over the years, Standards have been dropped considerably for all levels of certification.

As supportive as I am of the general move to easier certification courses for divers, it seems like instructors have to know this kind of stuff, and have to be out there getting experience in these things, and not just reading about them....

I'm not supportive of easier certification courses. To my way of thinking, Divers are certified to dive unsupervised, before they can safely do so. The Buddy System is preached, but divers are certified without the skills required to perform an underwater rescue of their Buddy. Diver's are taught with an 8th grade textbook and don't understand why they can get gas on ascent with a tank that was OOA at 100 FSW. It's been dumbed-down too much. Dive training has become just another way to turn a fast buck selling equipment and courses to the want it cheap, want it now Society. Quality in products and education are quickly becoming something from a past age (like me)...