What women want?

[mania]

Unfortunately the thread I mentioned is gone.
to make the long story short - as a woman I'm against anything "only for woman". I think that sort of diving training would not be good for woman.
Academic issues you mentioned could be done as a separate lecture but not a part of training. Then the question is also what level of training? OWD? At OWD most of the topics are not covered anyway. Those which may be interesting are in fact either not known or limited to a much higher lever of training.

risks on decompression illness,

I'm not sure there are really significant differences in male or female exposure to decompression. and even id there are ones they are not researched to the level that we are able to talk about. While other issues that may have influence - such as IDC - are not researched yet at the satisfactory level for all divers.

menstruation,

Answer for me is simple - menstruation is not a sickness. So if you have it painless you simply dive. If your menstruation is painful and you have to take anti pain medicine you don't dive. But this has nothing to do with menstruation but with medicine taken - goes for both sexes.

pregnancy

You can't dive when pregnant. Simple question simple answer

postpartum diving

postpartum is a depression. If you have one you should not dive. Goes for both sexes.

shark attack

Not to mention the basic that sharks' attack on divers are very rare - what is so special about sharks attacking women and not men? If you are talking about menstruation - this smell doesn't attract sharks

right down to nail polish and shampoo queries

You are not serious, right?

I’m not convinced that men WANT or need to listen to any of this

If you read the mentioned thread you would know that many of them want to listen because they dive with their girlfriends, wives and female buddies. So if THERE ARE any woman related issues they also should be aware of them.

Would you even want to go on women-only dive courses or do you prefer the typical mixed class scenario?

I would not go to women only course. Because I see no point in such. A standard mixed one is also an opportunity to make new friends. From both sexes.

As for the equipment - from my point of view there is nothing like female or male equipment. Backplate and harness reduces all problems BCDs have. There are female wetsuits and female dry suits. What else do you want to have that would be female if not talking about colours?

As for math and physics - please don't make me and yourself a blond. My mind is working properly. It has nothing to do with sex - it all has to do with intelligence - which is again true for both sexes.

Fittness issues - well, you simply have to work on it and be in shape. Fittness for divers by C. Martz is the book you have to read and in a way follow. Whether you are a women or men.
Ladies - why do you want to willingly make yourselves exactly the way some male think about you?
Mania

 

[Queen]

Ladies - why do you want to willingly make yourselves exactly the way some male think about you?
Mania

How or what men think is completely irrelevant to me. What is relevant is that our sport is largely male dominated and the majority of gear, travel, and information is targeted to them.

 

[mania]

Well....
The fact that somebody's thinking is irrelevant to me for me means disregarding this person. And I'm trying to regard every person if she/he deserves me regard.

It's a male dominated sport and it will be - take it or leave it. So it's better to fit in this world instead of creating a different, artifficial one, which will crush when confronted with reality.
Mania
PS. TSM - latetly at the gym I asked instructor to do separate programm for me that will include things I need for diving:
general fittness and strengh
back muscles
stomach muscles
hands muscels
tights muscels

I need the strengh for being able to cope with general difficulties, all the other muscels are needed to carry doubles and all the gear (hands), being able to stand up with doubles (tights and stomach) and being able to walk (back and tights).
And he did it. So I'm working hard now, as i did last year and could see the results when was dealing with American doubles - heavier that European ones.

 

[Queen]

Well....
The fact that somebody's thinking is irrelevant to me for me means disregarding this person. And I'm trying to regard every person if she/he deserves me regard.

It's a male dominated sport and it will be - take it or leave it. So it's better to fit in this world instead of creating a different, artifficial one, which will crush when confronted with reality.
Mania

My initial post was about a conference or a workshop, not a training class. I don't see a need for separate training...however, I don't think addressing issues women face in the sport creates any artificial divide. Look at my profile, I've been in this "world" since 1979 and have been through almost three decades of poorly fitting gear, boats where I was the only female, and the never ending saga of trying to find a dive buddy who just wanted to be a buddy (and whose wife/SO didn't mind).

It's not about creating an artificial world, it's about showing that there are enough of us now to warrant some changes to the way business (not training) is done. It won't happen in a day but it's starting to happen.

 

[mania]

My initial post was about a conference or a workshop

This was not so far ago discussed here very vividly....
And the general outcome was - there is a point to do o conference but not ONLY for woman.

I've been in this "world" since 1979 and have been through almost three decades of poorly fitting gear, boats where I was the only female, and the never ending saga of trying to find a dive buddy who just wanted to be a buddy (and whose wife/SO didn't mind).

OK, becasue I'm on this world waay longer than you this is why I don't show this on my profile.

Almost 3 decades of poorly fitting gear? You started diving as a newborn baby?

it's about showing that there are enough of us now to warrant some changes to the way business (not training) is done

And how it should be done? Pink with black dots (after all dots are in fashion this summer) BCDs and a special nail polish plus underwater mascara as a new product?

Mania

 

[Queen]

OK, becasue I'm on this world waay longer than you this is why I don't show this on my profile.

Almost 3 decades of poorly fitting gear? You started diving as a newborn baby?

You referred to diving as a world, I have been a diver since 1979 (I am 46 years old).

And how it should be done? Pink with black dots (after all dots are in fashion this summer) BCDs and a special nail polish plus underwater mascara as a new product?

Mania

I don't know you well enough to know if you're being playful with sort of question or if you're being rude.

Changing the "business of scuba diving" would be to pay attention the the needs of women. For example - offering gear that actually fits without having to pay exorbitant prices for custom suits or resorting to wearing child or mens gear.

 

[Cacia]

As for math and physics - please don't make me and yourself a blond. My mind is working properly. It has nothing to do with sex - it all has to do with intelligence - which is again true for both sexes.

This is a touchy subject, but a subject just the same.

Whether you believe our brains are wired differently, as I do (biology dictates that we multitask better).....fewer female genuises throughout history because male brains are more intensely unifocal.....(that doesn't translate to overallsuperiority, don't get excited)

Now, of course some women can do better at math....

but generally speaking, our natural aptitudes are less in that direction, I think.

Men are not as verbal, etc. Certainly can be overcome, but to deny it, well...I don't see why you would. I think science supports this, it just isn't pc.

Okay...even if you don't buy that..society has certainly treated us differently in the classroom, which has some implications. There are plenty of studies out there about same sex schools for girls (no thanks) but they do master proficiency of science and math better than when around boys....but at what cost.

Blonde or not.

I prefer to function in a more natural environment, mixed, but I am of the school of thought that we are different.

 

[mania]

You referred to diving as a world, I have been a diver since 1979 (I am 46 years old).

ups - I'm sorry, I missunderstood you.
so we have almost the same number of dives? Although I'm diving only for 4 years.

I don't know you well enough to know if you're being playful with sort of question or if you're being rude.

to be honest - probably both....I simply don't understand this way of thinking and I think it's against woman intrests.

For example - offering gear that actually fits without having to pay exorbitant prices for custom suits or resorting to wearing child or mens gear.

This I don't understand My one wetsuit is a female one - made by Beuchat, the second one female as well - by SP. As i wrote - i use BP and there is no way to have it female or male because it's so simple that fits everybody. My wetboots are my size. My fins also. My drysuit is female one and it's the worst part of it. None of my things (but the drysuit undergarment) are custom made. And I even didn't have to look very much for these things. Just walked to the shop and in everyone I've been there are male and female suits.
Have a look here:
http://www.scubapro.com/prod/wets/Monopiece_Barrier/Mono_Barrier.htm
or here:
http://www.beuchat.fr/catalogue/index.cfm?action=voir_sous_categorie&scat=12&a=1
or any other wetsuit producer. They all produce male and female stuff.
Every big producer I can think of does it.
Mania

 

[Cacia]

People have PM'd me asking what my comment about gay women meant.

What I meant was..if I was a gay woman, I wouldn't want to have to sort through all the straight ones, to find another diver GF...so the conference would be a good idea, travel trips, etc.

AND, not only that, I always assume any course or conference meant for just women will be about half lesbian. And the other half will have stumbled in because they don't have a clue and it sounded like a "good idea".

...not that there is anything wrong with that, but that is the way the world works.
Most straight women have no interest in attending a women only diving conference. That much estrogen energy would repell them right out the door.

UNLESS they specialize in female physiology or something very focused, and they are guest speakers looking for an audience that cares.

Men...now they are a different story, and like to glom on to each other even if they are straight.

 

[mania]

but generally speaking, our natural aptitudes are less in that direction, I think.

I absolutly disagree with you. None of the scientific researchs proves this.

Men are not as verbal, etc. Certainly can be overcome, but to deny it, well...I don't see why you would.

Then how come all the best writers were men? Throughout the whole history.....And don't tell me women couldn't write because at least in the XIX centruy they could. How many of them got Noble price in literature?

society has certainly treated us differently in the classroom, which has some implications.

And this may be the reason for your first question. But certainly it's not because minds are working differently. BTW I was in girls only school - private school run by nuns. And I don't see any costs you are talking about.

I am of the school of thought that we are different.

As you know I'm from the school we are equal. But maybe this is the reason why my boss tells me I'm more male than many of men in our firm....
But in a way it was like this in Poland for the last 200 years or so.
Probably you didn't have enough wars to create generations of strong and independent women, equal or often better than men.
Mania