What to do with scary adult divers whose children are better trained?

[Steve50]

The son completed his certification and did fairly well, but left our shop with a warning that he should get more experience before diving ocean and would be better off snorkling on the dive trip.

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[ucfdiver]

I had an expereince this weekend that had me very concerned. Would like to hear opinion from some of the board members of what they think of this situation.

I had a mother who brought thier twelve year old son for a junior dive certification early this spring as they were heading on a dive vacation to the islands over the summer. The son completed his certification and did fairly well, but left our shop with a warning that he should get more experience before diving ocean and would be better off snorkling on the dive trip. I over-emphasized certain portions of the saftey rules for diving during the training where I even requested the mother to sit in on the classes. After questioning the mother, she presented her logbook with over 100 dives and was sure confident of her skills. I'm always concerned with younger divers and to ensure their safety.

Well, the mother shows up with her son and husband for a holiday weekend dive gathering open to person who completed certifications with our shop and any other guests. She tells us that her husband decided to do a quick padi course while on their dive vacation as her wasnt originally interested, and goes on to explain how she was proud of her son hitting 120ft on his first wall dive, despite having to be "rescued" by the dive guide as he got tired swimming aginst the current, how his dad lost him on a night dive and the captain eventually found him, and how she thinks he's ready for possible nitrox use when they go diving the next time. In addition, when diving with myself and other instructors, I must say that the young diver is better trained than both of his parents. In fact, I must say the parents were down right dangerous and many fellow diver refused to dive with them after only one dive. I found myself lecuturing them on multiple issues which wasnt my place, but OMG, they are going to kill someone. I wish I could pull the child's certification card although he met all the qualifications and when diving with other junior divers under the watch of adults other than his parents, did very well. Im proud to say I trained the kid, but the parents are going to kill this kid by placing him in situations he is way too young too deal with much less being trained to complete. (He never had night/limited vis training, or deep dovong course). Although he is now his parents repsonsibilty, and I made my self very clear how they have violated just about every safety rule we teach, (I would not permit them to dive with our group again until they complete a refresher/saftey course), they just answered that I was just being overprotective and that is why her husband wanted to do a PADI course rather than an SSI. Now I dont care who is the certifying agency is, but there must be some common sense used by parents.

My question for my fellow scuba boarders is: What would you do, or how would you address this situation?

Well, I think you start with the real problem, an instructor who hands out cards to people who aren't ready to dive.

 

[joolz]

BTW...I'm stealng this line...."Most 12 year olds don't have the physical strength or emotional maturity to handle an in-water rescue scenario involving a parent."

Consider it yours. And anyone else's if it helps prevent a similar situation.

I don't know what SSI does, but PADI makes each student sign an SOU of safe diving practices before we sign them off. Additionally, each parent signs a separate form acknowledging that they'll abide by the standards and depth limits set for their kid, among other things. If a parent came into the shop bragging about taking their kid to 120', that may be a good time to haul out the file and point out that both the student and parents have violated these agreements. You can show that you're serious without scolding, but let them know that the standards exist for a reason and breaking them isn't something to be proud of -- particularly when a 12 year old novice diver is involved.

If necessary, you could tell them that your shop will refuse to provide any further training to any of them if this continues. Even if they don't tell you that they're violating the standards, you can always ask to see their log books before you start another course....and keep copies of any pages that show a clear violation (esp if it's been signed by a DM)

 

[Missdirected]

SSI standards say that Jr. OWD between 12 and 14 are not to dive deeper than 60ft. And must dive with a certified adult. This should have been emphasized during the course.

Well, I think you start with the real problem, an instructor who hands out cards to people who aren't ready to dive.

Wow... I take it you missed the above, didn't read the whole thread, or were just in a flippant mood???? How was he to know these parents would disregard regulations and decide that a dive to 120' was peachy keen? Be fair now. Don't just post to cause trouble...

 

[ucfdiver]

Wow... I take it you missed the above, didn't read the whole thread, or were just in a flippant mood???? How was he to know these parents would disregard regulations and decide that a dive to 120' was peachy keen? Be fair now. Don't just post to cause trouble...

The son completed his certification and did fairly well, but left our shop with a warning that he should get more experience before diving ocean and would be better off snorkling on the dive trip.

That line concerns me. He received a cert that wasn't limited to non ocean sites, yet the instructor knew he wasn't ready. Why the rush to hand a card out?

 

[Atomic_Diver]

well my dad (43): O/W (1985) (30 dives)

Me (16): Master Scuba Diver (AOW+Rescue), Adv Nitrox, Wreck Penetration, Intro to Cave, Deep, Peak Performance Bouyancy, DPV, Adv Recerational Trimix, EFR/CPR, Intro to Tech/Tech Basics, Enrolled for next March 2010 at Halls Carrer Dive Institute in Marathon Keys, FL as a Student to get my Professional, and Deep Tec Instructor, and I have currently 175 logged dives.....

 

[Atomic_Diver]

forgot to add Solo diver certified from SDI as well

 

[joolz]

One more thing: keep meticulous records!

If these parents do succeed in getting their kid involved in an accident, you'll be the second person to get sued after the DM leading the dive. Make sure every waiver has been signed and dated, and keep a record of the dates on which you're having these conversations with the parents. You can't make them responsible parents, but you can prevent them from destroying you career if something bad happens.

 

[RetMTFE]

One more thing: keep meticulous records!

If these parents do succeed in getting their kid involved in an accident, you'll be the second person to get sued after the DM leading the dive. Make sure every waiver has been signed and dated, and keep a record of the dates on which you're having these conversations with the parents. You can't make them responsible parents, but you can prevent them from destroying you career if something bad happens.

Couldn't have put it better

 

[Tigerman]

forgot to add Solo diver certified from SDI as well

Youre 16 and youre SDI solo diver certified?
That dont add up with the 21 year old prerequisite for the course..