What size cylinders are in use for argon/air drysuit inflation?

[matt t.]

Go with a 6 cu ft. mounted on your plate. Should last at least 2 deep dives. I was never comfortable with the 14 mounted on the left side of my doubles. I have seen Tony's set up and it sems to work for him. Sometimes rebreather divers will use a slung bailout bottle (WITHOUT helium in it) also for suit gas, but I've never heard of an OC diver doing that.

 

[rjack321]

Nobody boosts argon... phoooy

Here's a pic of my home booster:

And another

Built it myself from a double acting hydraulic cylinder and some hoses and check valves. Its driven by a AL80 but you can also drive them off a hydraulic jack. Both Masterline and Haskels can boost argon just fine too, although those commercial boosters are way more expensive. The unit above cost me about $175 or so.

 

[amascuba]

Would a AL13 Luxfer work? I'd just be using air in it. Are the AL13 and LP14 the same dimensions as far as width? Also, are the differences between using air and argon that noticeable?

 

[Doc Intrepid]

okay, I stand corrected!

(actually, I had a brain fart. The shops I go to generally can fill a 6 fulll by boosting it also. but thats not always the case on the road, which is why I bring (3) sixes on trips...)

i still think you're better off with a LP 14 compared to a HP 13, if you're a traveling diver! Lotsa remote location dive shops I've been to if they have argon at all, they don't always have it run through the shop booster...but YMMV.

 

[Peter_C]

Huh? Whoever told you this is on crack.

As I said, I read it. I just spent a little time on google and could find no collaboration with this one websites claims. Seems to me if it was true, then other websites would be mentioning it.

"ARGON serves as a better insulator than air. By filling the dry suit with ARGON the diver replaces the thinner, more compressible air with denser gas that does not compress nearly as much under a given pressure. This is a very advantageous concept for the dry suit diver. ARGON insulates better, but it also is more resistent to compression as the diver goes deeper under the water. That means that the insulation provied by the undergarment is also more effective. The other advantage to using ARGON is that it requires less venting and filling of the airspace inside the drysuit. As depth changes, ARGON is less effectd by those changes than regular air. As the diver ascends, he/she does not need to vent as much to maintain neutral buoyancy. Similarly, as the diver descends, less ARGON is needed to maintain neutral buoyancy."

Steve's Scuba Argon Page

If it is misinformation, then please share "facts".

I have an argon tank attached to my TIG welder, but when traveling I will need fills from an LDS. Gonna have to invest in my own whip hose setup when I do start using argon instead of borrowing my friends whip :14:

 

[JS1scuba]

Helitrox is not a high helium program as such you can fill your inflation bottle with air or a combination of air / argon to get the full fill.

The standard bottles used for suit inflation are:

6 cuft / 3000 psi
13 cuft / 3000 psi
14 cuft / 2015 psi

Most experienced divers can get one deep dive or two shallower dives out of a 6 cuft bottle assuming its filled to 3000 psi. If your PDC has a gas booster and can fill argon to 3000 psi then having some 6's (2 of them) works great. The cylinders are small and easy to mount to your back plate.

The 13s and 14s are bit bigger but when properly mounted take up not much more space. The decision here has to do with a booster.

Argon gets delivered to you from a commercial gas company between 2000 and 2400 psi. As such without a gas booster you will never have a full 3000 psi tank, whereas with the 14 cuft unit you will always have a full argon fill even with transfilling.

IF money is an issue go with the 14 cuft bottle its the most versitile of them all in terms of volume and ease of getting full argon fills. If money is not an issue get 2 6 cuft units. even if you cant get a full 3000 psi of argon you can top with air to get full volume.

We have a full selection of Suit Inflation systems on our website

The key to using suit inflation is to estimate your suit gas needs properly. Square profile dives will use less suit gas than up/down dives. The undergarment lofting will also make a difference in how much gas you need. Remember the argon will only enhance an already warm diver. If you start out cold it will not get you warmer.

Cheers

 

[jjones9527]

We can get argon in 4500psi supply bottles here in Canada. Our biggest worry is overfilling the 6cf tanks! I personally use air for suit inflation most of the time, and as has been stated the LP14s are nice because no matter where you go you can get quite a few CF from a lower supply pressure.

 

[Jimmer]

Helitrox is not a high helium program as such you can fill your inflation bottle with air or a combination of air / argon to get the full fill.

Yeah, I'm not even convinced I'll use argon all that often, I might end up just using air, since I have a pretty good cold tolerance as it is. I'm really just concerned with what cylinder seems to fit the best. Anyone use the Faber 13cf 2400 PSI cylinders? I've seen a couple of those for sale at a really good price.

 

[dsteding]

As I said, I read it. I just spent a little time on google and could find no collaboration with this one websites claims. Seems to me if it was true, then other websites would be mentioning it.

"ARGON serves as a better insulator than air. By filling the dry suit with ARGON the diver replaces the thinner, more compressible air with denser gas that does not compress nearly as much under a given pressure. This is a very advantageous concept for the dry suit diver. ARGON insulates better, but it also is more resistent to compression as the diver goes deeper under the water. That means that the insulation provied by the undergarment is also more effective. The other advantage to using ARGON is that it requires less venting and filling of the airspace inside the drysuit. As depth changes, ARGON is less effectd by those changes than regular air. As the diver ascends, he/she does not need to vent as much to maintain neutral buoyancy. Similarly, as the diver descends, less ARGON is needed to maintain neutral buoyancy."

Steve's Scuba Argon Page

If it is misinformation, then please share "facts".

I have an argon tank attached to my TIG welder, but when traveling I will need fills from an LDS. Gonna have to invest in my own whip hose setup when I do start using argon instead of borrowing my friends whip :14:

Not even technically true, and certainly not relevant to scuba diving.

Volume of gas is not related to density of that gas. Remember PV=NRT, or relevant to scuba diving and compressibility, V=NRT/P, so volume is inversely related to pressure. Note that N is the amount of gas in moles (or number of atoms) and is not related to density of a gas, which would be mass/volume of the gas.

Although the ideal gas law works best for monoatomic gases, it is a close enough approximation of how both a mixture (O2/N2) and a pure monatomic gas will behave at the temperatures and pressures we see. While the above generalities regarding compressibility may work at higher temperatures and pressures (where the ideal gas law breaks down), any difference at scuba temperatures and pressures would be unnoticable.

So, bottom line, argon and, say, nitrox, will compress the same amount in your suit, and the above quote is pure hooey (particularly the bolded parts).

The reason Argon is a better insulator has to do with its thermal conductivity relative to either nitrox, or in technical diving, helium mixes. Thermal conductivity is a property of the individual gas and roughly corresponds to atomic mass. This is where argon (as opposed to helium in particular) has an advantage over other suit inflation gases. It is slower in terms of transmitting body heat from your skin to the your drysuit. This is why it (supposedly, and there is much debate on this-search engine is your friend) is a "warmer" suit inflation gas.

 

[Jimmer]

Anyone have any experience with small steel tanks for DS inflation? Likely a 2400 PSI 13, but I just found a VERY good price on an HP13 Worthington. I know the HP tank will never get a full argon fill without a booster, but I'm honestly expecting to be using air most of the time. If anyone has tried small steel tanks for DS inflation, do you notice the added negative buoyancy compared to the AL tanks?