"What if ..?"

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It looks like both sides of this difficult question (leave or stay with the buddy) have been discussed pretty well. And I agree that it is a question worthy of quiet contemplation, that may not have a "right" answer.

I am curious how many here have discussed "end of the world" scenarios like this with their regular buddy(ies)? What did you decide (as an individual, or as a team)?

Me: I'm a totally unremarkable diver doing totally unremarkable dives here in Hawaii with my wife and kids as my main buddies.

While I could not leave any of them behind, I have told them (on more than one occasion) to leave me behind if I was ever injured and trying to rescue me put them in any danger.

Best wishes.
 
I think that SOLO divers, as you should know my now....are some of the most experieced divers in both cave and wreck and even deep water, go SOLO. This question was asked in my beginner tech course.
 
I think that SOLO divers, as you should know my now....are some of the most experieced divers in both cave and wreck and even deep water, go SOLO. This question was asked in my beginner tech course.

That is one of the biggest things that I love about solo diving, that I'm not responsible for anyone other than myself. I mean, I try to be as good a buddy as I possibly can when buddy diving but I might screw up and it impact on them, or I might need to leave my buddy behind (whilst the chances are low they are not impossible). And yea as others have said you have to live with that forever.
 
There are those I love and adore. There would be no way that I would leave my girlfriend or Bob Sherwood. As Henrik pointed out, in Bob's classes, he talks about defining your personal limitations. I have a pretty strong feeling that whatever limits he puts on his personal limitations, each one of his friends gets a special * added. In my case, there's the "*Trace Clause." If Bob were on my long hose (now that would really be out of Sea Hunt), I wouldn't even check the SPG. I'd also truly believe we just might make it.

I think if i'm diving with any of the GUE T2/C2 instructor corps that I'm not leaving the cave without them (its also probably about 100-to-1 more likely for the situation to be reversed...). It'd just be too personally embarrassing to leave one of them in a cave...
 
yes, i've had the discussion with my regular buddy. we're responsible to the same child - one of us gets *out*.

but that does *not* mean that i cut & run at the first hint of trouble. i'll stay and try to work the problem as long as i possibly can without added jeopardy.

and it was a discussion in my intro to tech class, too. the instructor introduced the idea of isolating if someone goes on your long hose & gas is tight. not as a thing to do, but as a thing to think about. this is definitely not a case of 'two is one and one is none'!

though i totally respect those who say that it's as good a way to die as any, trying to help.
 
I'm 24 years old. I've barely lived at all. I'm not going to check out early if I can help it at all.
This statement triggered a thought in me as I read it. I'm 46 and feel I've led a pretty fulfilling life. For the most part I am a happy man. There are still plenty of things I would like to experience true but if I were to buy the farm tomorrow I would not feel I was being short changed in any way. Although I still have a strong survival instinct I would say I am not as "hungry" for life as I once was. In a "life for a life" scenario I think I might be more swayed by a young person in peril as I would want them to have the same opportunity for growth, experience etc. that I have had... I think.

I'm also of the buddhist faith so it will just be a short checkout before I'm right back at it anyways - kind of takes the punch out of things :D

As to the subject at hand. I think we all have base instincts (either for self preservation or self sacrifice) which is neither good nor bad. It only poses a problem when those instincts are out of balance. While we may not be able to precisely predict our reactions to stressors we can recognise our tendancies and work to counteract them through training, role models etc... I also think that facing such a theoretical dilemna can highlight the painful ramifications (whatever the reaction) and thus propel us to take steps to ensure we don't put ourselves in that position needlessly.
 
I think if i'm diving with any of the GUE T2/C2 instructor corps that I'm not leaving the cave without them (its also probably about 100-to-1 more likely for the situation to be reversed...). It'd just be too personally embarrassing to leave one of them in a cave...

Don't do that. I'd testify in court that you'd probably be the only one following what you learned in training in that scenario.

Also, don't forget rule number one ... ;)
 
It has been interesting reading the posts thus far. One can get a feel for the environments and the experience level from which divers imagine this scenario taking place.

In Doc's scenario, it struck me that he thought of the OOG team meeting another team of divers. In his mind, he was probably imaging a cave in North Florida.

In my mind, I created the scenario in a remote cave on an island. Not only would there not be help, but there might not be anyone to come looking for us for a while.

Others felt that they would never find themselves in this situation.

As you gain experience, you may be surprised where you will dive and what you will do. How many of us who are avid cave divers ever thought we would ever be cave divers in the first place? How many of us just wanted to take a cavern class or intro to cave, just to become a better trained diver? How many of us became full cave just to avoid the hassle of not being full cave at places like Ginnie Springs?

Remember when you promised yourself never to leave the gold line, or that you wouldn't die cave diving because you would only make one jump - ever? Then, before you know it, you're picking up your clothespin at T-72! (Even if you believe that cookies are the way to go!) Believe me, this just keeps on going. If you ever told me that I would be wading through waist deep muck, starting cave dives in zero visibility, exploring to see if the cave went anywhere or if there was visibility or blue water somewhere deep inside, I would have thought you were crazy.

I could tell you a two lost off the line story with a cave instructor as a teammate that we never saw coming when blue water became zero vis in a big room.

I've learned that you could dive by the book in caves 99.9% of the time, and the one time you stretch your margin of safety - even for what your brain tells you is an acceptable reason - to fulfill a professional mission, you get handed the whole can of Whoop-@$$. A decade ago, I would have said, "No way is anything going to happen to me in a cave. I'm going to follow 100% of the rules 100% of the time."

Experience often finds you thinking about questions like, "So, do you want to do visual jumps? Because, once we are on that line we know we can get out at point B, right?" when a 30 year veteran cave explorer's eyes say, Trust me.

I learned a couple of things in this thread. First, I never thought of isolating. Isolating in a situation like this as an added possibility. Fair is fair. You've got your 1/2 of all that is left. Interesting to ponder. Also, I like Doc's suggestion that a team discuss what the final option will be in the worst possible case. You then can perform whatever act you agreed upon if the impossible becomes real. The team will either stay together or one diver just might make it. But, if at the moment that diver reaches back to shut off his or her gas, both will know they agreed to it.
 
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Trace, posts like this last one rock me back on my haunches and make me sober. When I learned to dive, it was to do open water dives on sunstruck, colorful tropical reefs. I never thought I'd even dive in Puget Sound. And when I took Fundies, I told the instructor in all seriousness that I wanted to be the best recreational diver I could be, and I had no aspirations beyond that.

Caves seduced me quickly. An hour under the overhead in NoHoch in 15 feet of water seemed pretty benign.

To do Cave 2, I did a tech class. Honestly, tech diving scares me a lot more. The ocean has so much more opportunity to mess with a diver, with currents and visibility and surface conditions. Decompression obligations in open water hit me hard, in a way that a couple of thousand feet of penetration in a cave don't. But both are scenarios where one has to decide how much risk to take for the team -- how much is that commitment you made when you started the dive worth, when the chips are down? I agree that none of us really knows what he or she would do until it happens, but I also think there's enormous value in considering the question.

I don't like the isolator option, BTW. I don't want to engage in an air-share with someone and have them run OOG while on my long hose. I'm WAY too accessible to mug at that point. I don't know how I want to die, but fighting with my dive buddy over our own remaining regulator ain't it.
 

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