Provocative talk yesterday at NSS-CDS: Toss out the rule of thirds?

[mr_v]

The "I just want to get the f--k out of here" mental demon can be very very real and probably one of the things that gets some people in alot of trouble. I think any technical diver who's experienced a big issue has experienced it.

It was interesting to get two different perspectives. When I was dealing with an issue, I felt like it took an hour. But my buddy observed it from behind and said that I took care of the problem in seconds. The fact that I had so much bail out allowed me to calm down and proceed slowly as planned. That is, in part, why I don't subscribe to optimistic bailout scenarios.

 

[rjack321]

The "I just want to get the f--k out of here" mental demon can be very very real and probably one of the things that gets some people in alot of trouble. I think any technical diver who's experienced a big issue has experienced it.
I personally am one of those people who's personality is just to keep pushing on through while I figure something out rather than stopping, gathering my thoughts, and slowly solving the issue. Its a personality flaw that I had to work on in cave diving. But its also why cave diving is mentally relaxing for me, because I shut that bad part of my brain off. One of the few places I can.

This is why zero-to-hero full cave programs are such a bad idea. The mechanical skills can be trained in ~10 days. The mental rewiring of the brain comes with experience and pretty much everyone needs that time underwater, under rock, for dozens+ of dives to cultivate calm under stress.

 

[CG43]

Add to that I grew up "in the water", so I pretty comfortable, and I'm not claustrophobic.

This and physical fitness are very good prerequisites for diving, especially for wreck and cave diving.
The question remains: what and how can one train for this later?

The mental rewiring of the brain comes with experience and pretty much everyone needs that time underwater, under rock, for dozens+ of dives to cultivate calm under stress.

Okay, what do you learn from dozens of dives without any unusual or dangerous incidents?
Doesn't that suggest that diving is fun and problem-free, and wreck/cave diving is doable?
But what happens if an OOA situation occurs or is presented as possible/probable?
RMV increases more or less as a fight/flight response.
In most cases, it would be better to reduce all unnecessary activities to conserve breathing gas.
And this can be practiced specifically as a generalized response to OOA/imagined OOA.

 

[kensuf]

Okay, what do you learn from dozens of dives without any unusual or dangerous incidents?

Muscle memory on tasks such as running a reel.

 

[rddvet]

This and physical fitness are very good prerequisites for diving, especially for wreck and cave diving.
The question remains: what and how can one train for this later?


Okay, what do you learn from dozens of dives without any unusual or dangerous incidents?

Simple. You gain confidence and comfort in an uncomfortable environment which allows your responses to incidents to be more controlled.
You can also drill skills such as ooa response with your buddy.

 

[mr_v]

The best sport that will prepare you for cave diving is cave diving.

@rddvet - I don't have a strong opinion on zero-to-hero vs. traditional approach. In the long-term, I do not think it matters that much, as long as people are willing to continue training and learning. How many have dive journals where they analyze dives and then review the analysis before diving again? If you're not willing to learn, you're not going to be good regardless of the agency, instructor, or the training route.

And if you practice often, eventually you'll get the experiences @CG43 mentioned. The idea is not to get the same "experience" more than once.

 

[jadairiii]

The question remains: what and how can one train for this later?

First and foremost, "Know thyself". Acknowledge your weaknesses. What situations on "normal" dives makes your heart beat a bit faster. Then, if possible, train to overcome those weaknesses or situations that trouble the diver. And if the diver is constantly trying to prove something to themselves, then that isn't fixable/trainable.

Way too many divers dive at the edge of their competence on "normal" dives. Someone else posted earlier, about zero to hero divers. They see their C card as the "mountain top", not what it is, the starting point.

 

[rddvet]

The best sport that will prepare you for cave diving is cave diving.

@rddvet - I don't have a strong opinion on zero-to-hero vs. traditional approach. In the long-term, I do not think it matters that much, as long as people are willing to continue training and learning. How many have dive journals where they analyze dives and then review the analysis before diving again? If you're not willing to learn, you're not going to be good regardless of the agency, instructor, or the training route.

And if you practice often, eventually you'll get the experiences @CG43 mentioned. The idea is not to get the same "experience" more than once.

Unfortunately I think the issue is a lot of people are not willing to continue learning. Once the card is handed out, that's it. I think that lends alot to why the average cave diver is out of it in 3 years. I come back from a dive and think about the dive and what I could have done differently, even if its small. Or if it was all positives, I keep that in the back of my mind as what I want every dive and think about how to achieve that. I still have fun, but I'm my worst critic. Its not about continuing education from more classes, but more self assessment and learning from your buddies or mentor.

 

[LFMarm]

Its not about continuing education from more classes, but more self assessment and learning from your buddies or mentor.

Two more ideas:

• Repeating a class with a different instructor can be beneficial.
• Doing guided dives with good instructors and asking for harsh feedback.

 

[rddvet]

Two more ideas:

• Repeating a class with a different instructor can be beneficial.
• Doing guided dives with good instructors and asking for harsh feedback.

Agreed.