What are your buddy "requirements"?

[MNScuba]

They must have a c-card... First dive with someone I never dove with is usually pretty shallow until I get to know they're comfortable and safe underwater. We've all been the new diver, luckily I had some real good dive buddies right off the bat, thanks GP and Jason!

 

[kwesler]

all these replies are crossing each other in cyberspace...

You are of course correct that I could have taken a hit, and the thought did go through my mind, but I did not consider not doing something...the thought was more like, "If I take a hit and convulse I am going to be ANNOYED!" However, the odds were dramatically in my favor as far as an O2 hit is concerned.

I just read the above, and I want to make this point clear because it is relevant to a discussion about buddies...

I NEVER considered abrogating (how about THAT word!) my RESPONSIBILITY as a buddy. Period.

Ken

 

[MikeFerrara]

If I were you and was unable to prevent her from wanderin off in the first place I would have done the same. I don't plan dives with that high of a ppo2 but 1.6 is within the limits recommended for recreational diving and is certainly within exceptable contingency limits. IMO, the risk to her was far greater than any risk to you. In fact, if you had been a little slower the situation would have become dangerous because she wouldn't have had the gas for a normal ascent and I dobt her emergency skills were any better than her ability to follow a dive plan.

IMO it's ok to not dive with someone like that if you see them comming but once the dive is started I would stay with it til it's over.

 

[kwesler]

If I were you and was unable to prevent her from wanderin off in the first place

THAT is what I keep going over in my mind...there must have been a moment when she made up her mind to head off, and I am disappointed in myself that I didn't see it, and prevent the issue to begin with. I really cannot say if she just dropped without warning, in a way I could not have prevented, or if she telegraphed what she was going to do.

I started as a theatrical stage manager, and I always knew when an actor would start their cross before they did it. We all can tell when a driver is going to change lanes etc. It almost always made obvious BEFORE the action is taken. Did I become inattentive? Was I distracted by Dad and Junior? There is another lesson here that I am trying to figure out.

Ken

 

[nitroxbabe]

kwesler once bubbled...
all these replies are crossing each other in cyberspace...

You are of course correct that I could have taken a hit, and the thought did go through my mind, but I did not consider not doing something...the thought was more like, "If I take a hit and convulse I am going to be ANNOYED!" However, the odds were dramatically in my favor as far as an O2 hit is concerned.

I just read the above, and I want to make this point clear because it is relevant to a discussion about buddies...

I NEVER considered abrogating (how about THAT word!) my RESPONSIBILITY as a buddy. Period.

Ken

I am glad you are responsible, Ken. Maybe the described situation wasn't a "life or death", considering your O2 exposure was OK. I understand that. In the same situation, I would have helped this person too, "dope" (my word!) or not.

I certainly hope you're not going to take issue with my use of the word "dope" too; I don't know what else would be appropriate to describe her based on your story.

However, I'm sticking to my guns, PC or not. If I were in a life or death situation, or a situation with the potential to become such, I am going to think hard about whether I want to risk my butt. I don't want to die a martyr and I don't understand people who do.

I guess this raises an interesting question - how far are those of you out there in cyberspace willing to go to help someone regarding your personal safety???

 

[nicodaemos]

I think you're being too hard on yourself Ken. After all, did you even get a chance to look at the SG .... or did you spend the entire time looking at mom, dad & junior? It's not like you were the divemaster or anything.

Personally I think you did the right thing in creating a dive plan with them beforehand. The fact that they chose not to follow it is a testament to their stupidity.

You did a good thing by saving mom from her own foolishness. It's a shame she didn't appreciate it.

kwesler once bubbled...

THAT is what I keep going over in my mind...there must have been a moment when she made up her mind to head off, and I am disappointed in myself that I didn't see it, and prevent the issue to begin with. I really cannot say if she just dropped without warning, in a way I could not have prevented, or if she telegraphed what she was going to do.

 

[kwesler]

No problem there-I took the word in the spirit it was intended...

I think the interesting question is whether "will" is involved in this kind of situation. I wonder if some of the EMTs, etc. would respond. I tend to think that in an emergency situation-whether it is real, or you just THINK it is an emergency-you either act, or don't. I did not go through a mental process where I weighed the risks...I just did the best I could. I submit, N-Babe, that you are likely to act, without that much thought, if any, to your own safety-I think (and hope!) it is how we are wired.

Cheers!

Ken

 

[kwesler]

And there was no current! The other times I was on there it ripped! Ah well...

Ken

 

[nitroxbabe]

kwesler once bubbled...
No problem there-I took the word in the spirit it was intended...

I think the interesting question is whether "will" is involved in this kind of situation. I wonder if some of the EMTs, etc. would respond. I tend to think that in an emergency situation-whether it is real, or you just THINK it is an emergency-you either act, or don't. I did not go through a mental process where I weighed the risks...I just did the best I could. I submit, N-Babe, that you are likely to act, without that much thought, if any, to your own safety-I think (and hope!) it is how we are wired.

Cheers!

Ken

Thank you, I thought you were going to argue!

I do believe that people are "wired" to protect themselves first in a dangerous situation. The "fight or flight" response is a perfect illustration of that. The choice to help someone else is just that: a choice. You made a choice, concious or not, to help that person.

I think the safety issues in diving could be a bit more cloudy than the average situation an EMT might encounter. For instance, an EMT might be faced with a person trapped in a burning vehicle. The danger is obvious and imminent. However, in a situation where a person could take an O2 hit, the danger is far more subtle. There's not a big flaming thing in front of you saying "Danger!".

Hmm - choosing to NOT do something is actually a choice to act, isn't it?

 

[kwesler]

So the issue seems to be if the person who has to respond FEELS that there is danger-that is what triggers "flight or fight". We need a psychologist here...if I did not feel in danger (correctly or incorrectly) my instinct for self preservation was not triggered.

Does that mean that people who really do act heroically do so because they don't feel in danger? Or do they completely surpress their sense of self preservation?

I actually think this is interesting to talk about in the context of buddies. I think we tend to think of one diver in trouble, and their buddy helping. However, my observation has been that if a diver is in trouble, unless they are very experienced, or well trained, or both, their actions at least make life challenging for the person trying to help them. (May I have my teeth back now that you have ripped my reg out of my mouth!) ut:

Ken