We might stop diving

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It actually won't, since there are no statistics on the number of dives done per year or the number of active divers or the types of dives they do.

flots
None? There are no statistics whatsoever on the number of dives done per year? Of course there are. As with most statistics, they have made inferences based on the available data, and no statistical estimate will be perfect. Nevertheless, we do have an estimate, based on data, that seems to be consistent with objective observation. It is silly and obvious to note that the statistics don't specify "the types of dives" people do, and it reveals a fundamental misunderstanding of statistics in general.

The web site I linked to seems to have relied on the 2010 DAN Fatalities Workshop, which found .472 fatalities per 100,000 dives, or about 5 micromorts per dive. For comparison's sake (apples to apples), driving 100 miles in a car is equivalent to ½ a micromort, and 100 miles on a motorcycle, 17 micromorts. Hang gliding is worth 8 micromorts and giving birth in the USA, 170.

http://plus.maths.org/content/os/issue55/features/risk/index
 
Hi John, I really appreciate that you try to tell everybody that they don't remember their OW class but I too never did the oral inflate before the pin pivot excercise but rather used the power inflate. The cesa was also, as people mentioned before, horizontal and not vertical for "safety" according to my Padi instructor. My buddy took his OW with SSI a few month ago and reported exactly the same. So maybe this is written different in the instructor manuals but obviously not followed for whatever reason.

As I said earlier, I am quite sure that some instructors do not follow all the current standards of their agencies. As I said earlier, my own PADI OW certification process skipped a number of steps. I was recently talking to my niece, who was certified by a NAUI instructor. She did one short pool session followed by one OW dive to 10 feet--and she was certified. That falls absurdly short of NAUI standards.

On the other hand, we cannot be sure students accurately remember what they did in their training.

SSI and PADI are members of the RSTC, which means they agree to meet or exceed the same common standards. Both are expected to teach oral inflation of the BCD. Both do the CESA horizontally in the pool--it's hard to find a pool deep enough to allow a decent vertical CESA. Both are expected to do a vertical CESA in the open water.
 
Has anyone put together a sort of self-refresher course to encourage divers to practice basic skills they might have lost familiarity with?

Our dive shop offers a refresher course. It costs the amount of gear rental and you get 3 hours (or until you run out of air) in the pool with a DM who will run you through skills. In my various pool sessions I never seen it be a very large group, so it seems like a pretty good value.

But if you don't want to spend money- why not just look at your course materials and make a checklist of skills? Run yourself through the skills you were tested on. I know that I'm not incredibly comfortable with full mask floods in OW (but was fine with in the pool...), so I make it a point to fully flood my mask at the end of every safety stop. I also practice regulator in and out of my mouth, a skill I was uncomfortable with in the pool (but have been fine with in OW).


As for driving- I think I'm actually more scared of driving than I am of diving. But there is really no way to be a functional member of society where I live without driving, so I have to do it. However, having been driving multiple times daily for 15+ years, I have a lot more practice of that than I do diving. But while I can practice mask floods, I really cannot practice car control over black ice.
 
Our dive shop offers a refresher course.

Every shop I know offers a refresher course that goes over the basic skills from OW class. Our shop offers a similar experience in which you simply spend time in the pool with an instructor, working on whatever needs to be worked on--just as you might do with a golf instructor. Finally, you can usually rent pool time at a very nominal cost. If the shop has its own pool, you can go whenever it is open. If the shop does not have its own pool, you can usually share their rented pool time when they are teaching a class. (Many and perhaps most community pools will not let you rent pol time on your own for scuba because of insurance reasons. Shops have that insurance.)
 
Not necessarily.

I was recently talking with another instructor, someone who teaches a lot of students each year, and we came to this topic. He said with full confidence that when you do this exercise (formerly called the fin pivot), you had a choice as to whether you had the students do it with the inflator or orally. He always used the inflator. I showed him the standard, which requires both, and he was quite surprised. In our discussion, we also talked about several other skills that he did differently from what the standards said (but he was certain he was doing them according to standards).

When I was certified, I did what the instructor told me to do in the full two hours in which I was in the pool that was only 5 feet deep at the maximum. It was not until years later, when I was becoming a DM and having to do all sorts of skills I didn't remember, that I looked back in my original logbook and saw that the instructor had signed off for all sorts of skills we had never done.
He doesn't use the slates? My husband uses the slates and checks off each skill as he goes through it for every type of class he teaches. The other instructors I've worked with do the same.

---------- Post added October 22nd, 2013 at 08:06 AM ----------

sounds like a natural blonde. :D

R..
Okay, I'm so blonde that I darken my hair to look more natural. I do Ty not to be a ditz but sometimes that absent minded doctor gene has a way go showing though the hair dye.I don't remember much about my OW class except or playing around in the bottom o the pool, doing skills on the platform in the lake and doing the inal navigation exercise. It was 18 yeas ago and I was taking a stressful military pediatrics rotation at the time.
 
He doesn't use the slates? My husband uses the slates and checks off each skill as he goes through it for every type of class he teaches. The other instructors I've worked with do the same.
In contrast to your experience, I rarely see an instructor use slates for the skills for the CW dives. If you have done things a lot, you get into a routine. When instructors do refer to the slates, they skim them, just looking for the key words to remind them of the name of the skill. They may not have read the actual words there for years. I am pretty clear on the wording of the skills because in the past few years I have written articles on the standards and engaged in debates about them.

In some cases, they are following routines developed over many years, not noticing when things change. How many instructors are still insisting that students follow the exact form of a fin pivot, not realizing this was changed years ago? I recently heard an instructor say that for PADI, buddy breathing is an option, even though that, too, changed years ago. When I switched shops a while ago, the manager came to me because he noticed that I had not been placing the students' knowledge reviews in their student record files. He was surprised when I told him that PADI had removed that requirement a number of years before.

In other cases, the instructor is following what they were taught by a more senior instructor when they were starting out, not realizing that what they were told to do was not in keeping with standards. This can be especially true if someone serves as either a DM or an Assistant Instructor for a period of time. You imitate what you first experienced, not realizing that it is not a standard practice. I encountered an instructor who taught most of the skills with the students not wearing fins. He had apparently learned that from the Course Director who ran his IDC. It made it easier for students to kneel while doing the skills. He was surprised to learn that it was not standard practice. The practice of teaching students while they are on their knees is so firmly entrenched that there are many who still insist it is a required standard, even when PADI has made it perfectly clear to almost anyone's ability to read and think that it is not required.

It should not be surprising to know that this happens. In 1970, education researcher John Goodlad attempted to compare different educational programs to see which were the more effective in student achievement. He identified schools using different programs and compared their achievement. Fortunately, he was thorough enough in his research to go into the classroom and watch the teachers as they worked. He discovered that he could not compare the programs at all, because once the teachers were in the classroom, they taught the way they had always taught, often in direct contradiction to the programs they were supposed to be implementing. Going further, he found that teachers tended to teach the way they had been taught themselves or the way they had first learned to teach the subject, regardless of anything different in the way they were supposed to be teaching.
 
We might stop diving.


It's all about your personal risk/reward ratio. If it's favorable enough, you keep diving; if it's not, you don't.

I've pondered for a while now whether or not to stay with diving myself, and the inherent risks are a big part of my thinking. It appears I'm going to stay with the sport, and here's why:

1. I love weightlessness, hovering, and flight. Nothing else in life allows me to have these experiences.

2. I love the utter stillness and other-worldliness that you find underwater.

3. I'm a fan of getting away from it all. Most of "it" can't follow me underwater.

4. I enjoy having a hobby that is not shared by most people. I like being different. (I finally learned to embrace my inner oddball.)

5. My life just wouldn't be interesting enough without diving, and I've been unable to come up with something to replace it. I'm at a stage in life where I've already done so many other things that my options for new, cool activities are dwindling. Until I find something that interests me more, diving will be my go-to activity, even if it's not the grand passion it once was.

Good luck with your decision, Bill.
 
He doesn't use the slates? My husband uses the slates and checks off each skill as he goes through it for every type of class he teaches. The other instructors I've worked with do the same.

I skim the slates before class but at some point you get into a rhythm and don't really need them. What I do make use of, however, is the wetnotes. I make notes of things I notice during the dive so I don't forget to debrief it.

I'm sure looking forward to using the new standards. I haven't had a chance yet. I've been teaching along those lines already for a few years and had a bit of a falling out with the LDS because they undermined the OW course to the point where I didn't feel I could deliver quality on their time line anymore.... This year I've hardly taught anything and no OW courses. In January my daughter gets her OW crew pack for a birthday present. She's been bugging me since she was 12.

I do feel vindicated by the standards change. The LDS told me my method was madness and now they're going to have to restructure the course to do what I was already doing LOL. I feel like I've had the last word. :)

Okay, I'm so blonde that I darken my hair to look more natural.

LOL... don't get me all excited now. I only learned you were a woman a week ago and I still need time to adjust :D

doing the inal navigation exercise


I'm going to look up that word and hope you didn't make a typo with some kind of vowel substitution. :)

I could never be a doctor. I watched a program on the TV a few days ago about a surfer who got attacked by a shark and I nearly passed out cold on the couch when they showed pictures of the injuries. I honestly don't know how doctors do it. :respect:

R..
 
OK, I know the blonde line was a joke and off topic, but....

Research clearly shows that traits normally considered to be admirable tend to go together. Despite the common belief, people generally considered to be good looking also tend to be intelligent. That good looking blonde is likely to have above average intelligence.
 
OK, I know the blonde line was a joke and off topic, but....

Research clearly shows that traits normally considered to be admirable tend to go together. Despite the common belief, people generally considered to be good looking also tend to be intelligent. That good looking blonde is likely to have above average intelligence.

^^ always the serious one.... obviously not blonde. :D

R..
 

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