We might stop diving

[bowlofpetunias]

That's scalp showing through, John. Look again

j/k.

Alas my colour is going to grey. Not a happy camper.

R..

:doh: I can't resist... you can cure the grey with a bottle.... either to colour it or drink enough you don't care... Just remember it is better to have hair to BE grey than other options

 

[vladimir]

Yes you did, but that still doesn't turn guesses into data.

Again, I don't think you understand the process of statistical inference.

What was the fatal flaw in the data collected in BC? How about the Okinawa data? The Victoria data? The Queensland data?

 

[flots am]

Again, I don't think you understand the process of statistical inference.

. . .

As with most statistics, they have made inferences based on the available data, and no statistical estimate will be perfect.

"Not perfect" is quite an understatement. There is literally no data that I'm aware of, for non-training SCUBA dives or number of active divers in the US or Caribbean.

You can't make something out of nothing and expect any level of validity. The US isn't Australia. It's certainly not Japan.

The conditions are different, the creatures are different, the diving population is different, the mix of guided vs independent dives is different and the medical requirements are different.

I know you like statistics, but do not believe that even you can turn a wild-assed guess into actual data.

flots.

 

[fjpatrum]

Holy crap, what a way to find out Quero has passed! This sucks in so many ways.

Bill, I understand your reticence and, if I'm repeating other posts, I'm sorry. I take a couple of exceptions to your posts but think you make some very valid points. In the end, obviously, only you can decide the final path for yourselves.

First, you should be concerned. As we age (I have no idea of your age) we definitely need to consider our own physical limitations more and more. I'm in my early 40s and very clearly see a difference from just 5 or 6 years ago. That's primarily due to lifestyle changes, I hope, but age is definitely a factor. Taking that into consideration is just smart, in my opinion. Letting it dictate your final choice, maybe less so, but we all make our own decisions. There are plenty of 60s 70s and even some 80+ divers out there still participating. Perhaps they're taking it easier with shallower dives, shorter dives, less dives, but they haven't quit altogether. To be honest, I think the "healing" properties of doing something, anything, active far outweighs the potential extra risks associated with those activities as we age. I may change my tune in another 20 years though

Second, I recognize the need to maintain equipment but how much effort does that really take? Inspecting before and after dives/trips and getting things serviced when they need it (which isn't the same as when the manufacturer recommends it.) I'm not sure how jacket BCs are any easier for vacation divers unless you mean to sell your BP/W configs and just rent on vacations.

Third, recognizing your own limitations, with respect to panic and comfort on any given dive is also a smart consideration, in my opinion. I believe I've read a few of your threads/posts regarding "issues" with courses and dives. I've learned a great deal from the input on those threads and I've appreciated your honesty about the situations. I have, at times, wondered if maybe diving might not be the sport you are both best suited for but I've been glad to see you persevere and try to improve and learn more. It is inspiring to watch people overcome their own limitations and fears to excel and truly become "bigger" people.

Finally, I have, since my early 20s, tried to live by a credo that I wish more people understood and embraced. Simply, it is to live fearlessly. I don't mean live without fear, but rather, to understand our own fears and not let them dictate our actions. Don't make decisions based on being worried about something, but make them based on being excited about something. You have said many times, you Love diving. I would urge you, despite your fears, to continue doing that which you Love. I would dare say most of the people you've seen or read about, such as the Russian couple, and certainly Quero, would also.

Whatever your decision, I wish you the best. I now have to go ponder Quero for a few minutes and find out more information.

 

[clownfishsydney]

My wife is a professional risk manager. One of the things that she and I do for most things we participate in is risk assess the situation. Diving is no different. I risk assess each type of dive and each dive. A dive that one day may be an acceptable risk may the next be unacceptable (eg not feeling great, too much current, wind chop etc). Divers need to do more of this. I see it with some members of our club who have no idea of the increased risks of diving in currents or leaving their boat unattended or shore diving when the seas are up.

Over the past 25 years I have known many divers who have died, at least four of whom were dive buddies and good friends. The most recent one was only two weeks ago and I went to his funeral yesterday. Each one of these people died due to risk assessment that was faulty. One had a medical condition but decided that the chances of it happening again on a "soft" dive was so low as to be acceptable. Guess what, she was wrong and she died (I might also have made the same assessment to tell the truth).

The other three close friends were doing technical diving. The risks for these dives were all high, but that does not necessarily mean you need to not do them, just have in place risk mitigations that will minimise the risk to you. One dived in such a strong current that there was no way to lessen the risk except by not diving. Guess what, he dived and ran into trouble. The other two did not put in place sufficient risk mitigation to ensure survival if things went pear shape. They had problems and did not have a way out of it. They died.

As I have got older, I have decided that I do not need to take risks like I did when I was younger. I stopped motorbike riding after I crashed my bike and was lucky to suffer basically no injury. I do not take my boat out for a dive if the sea forecast is over a certain level.

As to the original poster, you need to assess what is a reasonable level of risk to accept. What may be okay for me, may not be acceptable to you. Set your boundaries and make sure you stick to them, even if others decide to dive.

 

[Stoo]

I dove with someone trained in the 90's, he was AOW. I asked him to help me with my weight belt getting it out of the way of the B/P. He asked why don't you just put it on before your B/P wing? I responded "Gearing up 101 the weight belt is the last thing on 1st thing off just like they taught you in OW". He insisted he was taught no such thing!?! Really? Not surprising so many divers are found with a weight belt on!

Humping the lead on after the rest of your kit is in place can be a Royal PITA. I, and almost all of my friends, dive doubles exclusively. Try moving HP 130s out of the way. It's all I can do to stand with them. Having said this, once I am in the water and horizontal, the first thing I do is before I leave the surface is to shuffle everything about and snug up buckles. Part of that process is to insure that the belt is free. I know it works because I dive out of a RHIB 99% of the time at home and I remove my belt (and tanks) before I get back into my boat. Almost always, the belt drops clear easily. It occasionally hangs up on my lift bag which is stowed on the bottom of my backplate, but a wiggle and a tug frees it up.

I did witness a girl on a charter on Sunday had a problem with hers. Her belt came loose just as she was beginning a dive. She surfaced in a fluster, with the belt hanging from her crotch strap. Apparently she hadn't runit under her weight belt. A happy ending, and another lesson learned...

 

[diverrex]

Humping the lead on after the rest of your kit is in place can be a Royal PITA. I, and almost all of my friends, dive doubles exclusively. Try moving HP 130s out of the way. It's all I can do to stand with them. Having said this, once I am in the water and horizontal, the first thing I do is before I leave the surface is to shuffle everything about and snug up buckles. Part of that process is to insure that the belt is free. I know it works because I dive out of a RHIB 99% of the time at home and I remove my belt (and tanks) before I get back into my boat. Almost always, the belt drops clear easily. It occasionally hangs up on my lift bag which is stowed on the bottom of my backplate, but a wiggle and a tug frees it up.

I did witness a girl on a charter on Sunday had a problem with hers. Her belt came loose just as she was beginning a dive. She surfaced in a fluster, with the belt hanging from her crotch strap. Apparently she hadn't runit under her weight belt. A happy ending, and another lesson learned...

And after hearing so many say that integrated weights are dangerous.

 

[billt4sf]

Over the past 25 years I have known many divers who have died, at least four of whom were dive buddies and good friends. The most recent one was only two weeks ago and I went to his funeral yesterday. Each one of these people died due to risk assessment that was faulty.

As to the original poster, you need to assess what is a reasonable level of risk to accept. What may be okay for me, may not be acceptable to you. Set your boundaries and make sure you stick to them, even if others decide to dive.

I'll say! If I had known "many" people that died diving, including four friends, and recent ones, too, I would not dive. It's not worth it in so many ways.

We have come to terms with the fact that good data on overall diving risk isn't available -- but what we are interested in is whether diving is safe for us.

- Bill

 

[dumpsterDiver]

I'll say! If I had known "many" people that died diving, including four friends, and recent ones, too, I would not dive. It's not worth it in so many ways.

We have come to terms with the fact that good data on overall diving risk isn't available -- but what we are interested in is whether diving is safe for us.

- Bill

I've personally seen 4 die and two get permanently paralyzed, not to mention minor injuries, accidents, bends, close calls etc. Not sure how this affect the probability of me having an accident?

 

[Tigerman]

I've personally seen 4 die and two get permanently paralyzed, not to mention minor injuries, accidents, bends, close calls etc. Not sure how this affect the probability of me having an accident?

Unless there is a common denominatior with regards to bad diving habits or such - none. If there IS a common denominator - time to look into possibly changing that..