Warped View of the Dive World

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Hey halemanō,

I'm not trying to debate the merits of full foot fins versus fins and boots and do see practical applications of each type. However, your statement does raise some questions for me.

What percentage of the new divers that you see are purchasing their equipment in Hawaii?

What percentage of the fins for sale at the dive shops in Hawaii are full foot?

The reason I ask is that in my home state (Texas), it seems to me that the vast majority of fins even offered for sale are those designed to be worn with boots (no, not cowboy boots).

The thought of walking barefoot on lava rock to a shore dive in Hawaii makes me shudder.
 
Good thing I live in SoCal where many of those points are less applicable due to our conditions. I think there may be a great deal of truth to them for recreational divers who live in areas with no direct access to the sea, and who therefore rely on dive vacation trips. Of course I'd have to eliminate the hardy folks who dive quarries with zero vis in cold water.

As for "supporting the dive industry," I don't think any of my major equipment is newer than 10 years old other than my wetsuit. I use mostly older, time tested gear that is no longer even manufactured. I don't support the industry by buying gear... until I absolutely NEED to.

My dive travel is general arranged by myself and based on 2-3 month expeditions rather than a week-long vacation dive. Of course I dive for work which makes a big difference. I rarely use dive travel businesses, but do support dive ops wherever I end up filming.

My "support" for the dive industry comes mainly from my sharing of information about marine life with other divers through my DVDs, cable TV shows, newspaper columns, dive club talks and just being around the Casino Point dive park. Even more important is the fact that many non-divers use these offerings to learn more about the underwater world... and hopefully some of them learn to dive as a result.
 
It seems to me that Most divers consider whatever kind of diving they do to require the most skill and dedication. Too many consider the diving that is done in their corner of the world is the "norm".

Well that is definitely not what I think!

I think that in general recreational diving is so easy that;

half fit, dim wit 10 year old's get certified every day

Lots of people are marking "no" on training medical releases for at least one question where a quick glance by the instructor should result in a question about BMI, but they get certified every day

Then they go off and do the two dives in my "highly likely" list. :coffee:

I think the VAST MAJORITY think "their" diving is easy. :idk:
 
I'll agree with your conclusions, but not your logic. The "VAST MAJORITY" diver you're defining won't come to ScubaBoard no matter what we do ... because internet forums tend to attract enthusiasts, and the "VAST MAJORITY" diver you're describing isn't an enthusiast of scuba diving ... to them it's a casual activity that they might give thought to once or twice a year ... if that.

If we did as you descibe, and the enthusiasts on ScubaBoard restricted themselves to only local forums (a very weird suggestion, to my concern), then the "major" forums would drop off to the point where you'd have only a handful of casual participants ... and eventually would die from lack of participation.

ScubaBoard certainly doesn't conform to your view of the "VAST MAJORITY" diver ... I see no reason why it should. Like every other business, it's going to cater to the majority of those who would want to "buy" what they're selling ... and that ain't the diver you're describing ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

This is becoming a recurring theme from you Bob; hearing (seeing) what you want to hear (see) instead of what is being said (typed).

I typed...

halemanō;5718363:
If the VAST MAJORITY of members could keep the local bias in the local forums, the main forums might attract more participation and actually be the fun that NetDoc tells his Mod's Scubaboard should be. :idk:

While I am not contending that there are not enthusiasts here on SB, I think there are also many beginner members here who end up thinking the internet "advise" they read is sacrosanct, "everywhere", and also a whole lot of angry, complaining, pot stirrering members; some who seem to have vendetta's against segments of the "Dive World" that they feel did them wrong. :shocked2:

Have you pondered why the "scuba enthusiast" dive instructors of Maui, who HAVE all heard of Scubaboard, are not even interested in participating in a "conversation" about why they are not interested in SB? Could it be that "vendettas" have turned SB into a toxic cesspool from the perspective of Maui Diving, even in our local forum? :idk:
 
I really don't think it matters because the "vast majority" of divers--whether local divers, vacation divers or full foot wearing Maui divers--never bother to google the internet and never end up on forums like this.

My thinking is that anyone reading this probably isn't one of Halemano's "vast majority" and those who are responding represent a "different" majority... namely a majority of "passionate" divers, few of whom wear full foot fins or follow DM's around and few (if any) of whom fit in his stereotypes of the "clueless noob" that seems to constitute the majority of divers he has encountered.

The issue for the group in question seems to be, in this case, that Halemeno believes that whatever he sees in the 360 degrees around him constitutes the entire world of diving and that what *he* does (for example, wearing full foot fins) constitutes the entire range of needs and experience of the diving population world wide.

Naturally, and over a great many threads of such nature, people have tried to discuss and/or convince him otherwise but his opinion seems to remain as stiff as a tree trunk in a stiff breeze. The real issue is... how seriously do we need to take his "N-th" attempt to win this argument?

To me, at least, it's pretty clear that he knows exactly how it works in his local environment.... but how many of you want to listen to him tell you that this is the way is is *everywhere* even though he has (likely) never travelled more than a few miles from home?

He's clearly an intelligent and literate guy... but seriously.... when it comes to arguing how it is to walk on the moon most of us would shut up and listen... Halemano, on the other hand, would tell you that he's sure how it feels... (I hope that doesn't sound harder than it was intended but it *does* seem to me that that's how these discussion usually go...)

and let me just be clear that I'm posting this in the role of "user" and not in the role of moderator!

R..
 
I
This, btw, is one of my biggest complaints about "the typical PADI instructor" -- which is the narrowness of the instructor's diving experiences. I don't care if one does 200 or 400 or 600 dives during his diving instructor training -- IF all the diving is under similar circumstances, then, in fact, the person is only doing 2, 4 or 6 dives 100 times each. My BVI instructor companion was very open about that which is why he was, truly, interested in what those of us with very different diving experiences could teach him.

There is no doubt that your extensive, expensive training and dive travel has benefitted you and broadened your experience in diving. I would certainly hope so or you sure pissed away a lot of money for nothing.
It's a bit unfair to feel that local dive instructors in developing countries aren't up to your standards. Many of these guys and gals will never be able to afford a car, much less a dry suit and a trip to New England for diving. They're trying to scratch out a better living, which they do in Belize, where the minimum wage is US$1.50 per hour.
So where do we go? Have resorts advertise for dry suit, cold water, cave intro instructors, meaning none will be from Belize? (Philippines, Indonesia, Thailand, Bonaire, etc etc etc)
Or train instructors here to teach the basic open water skills, after which a diver can move on to further training, such as you have.
 
What percentage of the new divers that you see are purchasing their equipment in Hawaii?

What percentage of the fins for sale at the dive shops in Hawaii are full foot?

The reason I ask is that in my home state (Texas), it seems to me that the vast majority of fins even offered for sale are those designed to be worn with boots (no, not cowboy boots).

The thought of walking barefoot on lava rock to a shore dive in Hawaii makes me shudder.

First; I am saying that most dives in the world are made in rental gear, hence most dives are in rental fins. That being said, most of the Maui divers I know own/use full foot fins, even most shore instructor/guides.

Second; there are very few shore dives in Hawaii that start with a walk on lava rock (except perhaps on the Island of Hawaii), and not all lava rock is a'a.

Lava - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Wikipedia:
Pillow lava is the lava structure typically formed when lava emerges from an underwater volcanic vent or subglacial volcano or a lava flow enters the ocean. However, pillow lava can also form when lava is erupted beneath thick glacial ice. The viscous lava gains a solid crust on contact with the water, and this crust cracks and oozes additional large blobs or "pillows" as more lava emerges from the advancing flow. Since water covers the majority of Earth's surface and most volcanoes are situated near or under bodies of water, pillow lava is very common.

It is common for my BDB and I to wear our flip flops (slippa's in Hawaii) on the sometimes long hikes to the sites we do; then we leave the slippa's at the entry/exit point or take them with us if getting out at a different spot.

Here are two days at Cliff House; pictures before and after "entry with my Cressi Gara2000's and a vid of a Mares Quattro entry. One of my Cressi's "jumped" off the boat and it took a while to find replacements.





<img src="http://www.scubaboard.com/gallery/data/500/P1010637.MOV" />
Pardon me a momment; learning curve on first vid post :shocked2:​

In the pics you see many barefoot people on lava rock. My photog/videog is a mid fifties aged female in full dive gear, with bare feet. :idk:
 
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I really don't think it matters because the "vast majority" of divers--whether local divers, vacation divers or full foot wearing Maui divers--never bother to google the internet and never end up on forums like this.

My thinking is that anyone reading this probably isn't one of Halemano's "vast majority" and those who are responding represent a "different" majority... namely a majority of "passionate" divers, few of whom wear full foot fins or follow DM's around and few (if any) of whom fit in his stereotypes of the "clueless noob" that seems to constitute the majority of divers he has encountered.

The issue for the group in question seems to be, in this case, that Halemeno believes that whatever he sees in the 360 degrees around him constitutes the entire world of diving and that what *he* does (for example, wearing full foot fins) constitutes the entire range of needs and experience of the diving population world wide.

Naturally, and over a great many threads of such nature, people have tried to discuss and/or convince him otherwise but his opinion seems to remain as stiff as a tree trunk in a stiff breeze. The real issue is... how seriously do we need to take his "N-th" attempt to win this argument?

To me, at least, it's pretty clear that he knows exactly how it works in his local environment.... but how many of you want to listen to him tell you that this is the way is is *everywhere* even though he has (likely) never travelled more than a few miles from home?

He's clearly an intelligent and literate guy... but seriously.... when it comes to arguing how it is to walk on the moon most of us would shut up and listen... Halemano, on the other hand, would tell you that he's sure how it feels... (I hope that doesn't sound harder than it was intended but it *does* seem to me that that's how these discussion usually go...)

and let me just be clear that I'm posting this in the role of "user" and not in the role of moderator!

R..

There are a number of instructors and SB Staff that do not seem to be able to read every word in my posts.

Once I go against the "themes" of SB the eyes and ears seem to be covered (or filled with blood).

I have "reported" TOS violations and been told that "a better way" would be to use the thread as a learning and educational thread; I guess you see no learning and education in this thread, so by all means don't participate.

All I am pointing out is that much of the advise here on SB is typed in an "absolute" manor, from that typists local bias, and often the person "being advised" is never going to dive in that type of local.

When I argue, I argue for better typing ethics. This is not the first time in this thread where you, Diver0001, have claimed that I am telling "you that this is the way is is *everywhere* even though he has (likely) never travelled more than a few miles from home?"

I started diving at age 7 in Norther Idaho, Montana, Washington and Wyoming (Yellowstone), in 1966, taught by my dad. I made over 150 summer dives with my family and our friends until 1975. I grew up in Colorado, and every summer until I was 15 we lived somewhere other than Colorado.

I've worked all across the Western USA in the oil field, living in Montana, Nevada, Utah, Colorado, New Mexico, Texas and Oklahoma, and did two exploration jobs in Alaska; one in winter north of Fairbanks, at the Arctic Circle, and one in summer in the remote north Cook Inlet area.

I have worked on Cruise ships; in the Hawaiian Islands, including many trips to Fanning Island, "repositioned" from Puerto Rico to San Francisco, visiting ports in Curacao, Aruba, Costa Rica, Mexico, California and Canada, up and down the California coast (3 stops at Catalina Island) and then repositioned back to Hawaii. I have also made "fun" driving trips to Mexico and Canada with friends and family.

In post #3, I drove my Nissan King Cab with Harley Cafe Racer in the back, from Monterey, where I lived for 3 years, to the Key's, and back. I have lived on 3 Hawaiian Islands and visited the other 4, diving off all of them.

Just because you announce "you are just posting as a member" your badge still says "SB Staff" and I think you should show some examples of your "claims" that I have ever told anyone on SB that they should do it my way. :shakehead:

I really dislike sloppy, accusative typing and your posts in this thread are both. PROVE your accusations! :no:
 
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(I hope that doesn't sound harder than it was intended but it *does* seem to me that that's how these discussion usually go...)

If SB Staff could actually follow the topic of a thread that might not be the case so often! :mooner:
 
Sheesh.

Obviously I got it wrong from the first post - I mean, I gathered that it was a description of how the diving world appeared to halemano. An opinion.

Not as a definitive statement of how the world really is.

We've all got our opinions. Actually, if you can read the posts where folks have posted the same, it's quite interesting to see the differing views.

Meh. It's an opinion piece! Stop beating up on the guy. ...It's starting to look like dogpiling.


All the best, James
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/perdix-ai/

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