Warped View of the Dive World

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While I agree with you on some points, I have found that your generalization really only applies to people who get certified at resort locations. Having been certified at an "inland dive shop" as well as worked at several over the past 10 years, I find that the majority of our customers actually become "divers". Anyone who has ever been excited to dive in Lake Travis in Austin, TX surely knows what I am speaking of.

As an instructor I always tell the story of how when I would travel the most frustrating part of my dive trips were that my last dive was always my best dive, meaning I would finally get back into the "swing" of diving at the end of my trip. It is because of this phenomenon that I make a huge push toward diving local. I now have a growing group of students who almost religiously come out to the lake with me whenever I go (at least twice a month). The funny thing is after a few dives they really enjoy that green pond we call a lake. In the winter time when the vis is a stunning 20 - 30 ft, instead of the normal 5 ft (HELP I CAN'T SEE MY FINS!) I actually have people lined up to get drysuit certified just so they can see the lake and the wildlife contained in the water in it's full glory without having to contend with open water students silting up the whole place and algae blooms killing the little bit of vis on the surface.

It all is really on how your instructor feels about diving and the passion he or she shows. Do I dream of being resort bound one day, of course, as my handle states I am actually in the planning process (if Mubarak ever resigns!) as we speak. In the meantime though I still go diving almost every weekend and any and all of my students are always invited to come along and blow some bubbles with me.

There is nothing more satisfying then when you fill out the questionnaire at a dive resort and they ask you when was the last time you went diving and you fill out last weekend!! Your gear is all tuned and tested and you are feeling confident as ever!!

As to the deep diving and overhead environment comments, how would you feel if you just busted your ass for a whole week to only go diving to 60 ft when the rest of the group gets to go to 80 ft? The open water certification is really a certification to learn under the guidance of a trained professional. Would I recommend that an new open water diver hire a boat and get a buddy and go to 100' NO WAY, but I would have no problem with taking them with me if the conditions and staffing were appropriate.

I personally got certified at Ginnie Springs in Florida and to this day one of the most awesome dives I ever did was my first open water dive as a certified diver into Ginnie Cavern. Being in that overhead environment (with several instructors supervising) ignited a passion in me that has led to me changing my whole life. In fact I think it is safe to say that I would be one of the people you are generalizing about had it not been for that one dive.

Not being critical just putting my two cents in.
 
If we were sitting down at a table after a dive, someone like Halemano could easily begin a conversation at the table, but by the times we were on our second round, the direction of the discussion could have changed considerably.....Why is this a bad thing? Conversations need to be fluid to be worthwhile --- I don't see being so rigid that no tangents can be tolerated, or that one of us needs to police any deviations as improper. Cmon, this forum is for fun....
 
halemanō;5719252:
When I argue, I argue for better typing ethics. This is not the first time in this thread where you, Diver0001, have claimed that I am telling "you that this is the way is is *everywhere* even though he has (likely) never travelled more than a few miles from home?"

Meh....

tbh, I don't know if I'm right or wrong....

I guess that how *right* you are depends to a certain extent on how much risk you want to take that you might be wrong....

R..
 
haleman&#333:
I think the VAST MAJORITY of "recreational" dives made in the World are made in waters 70 degrees F and warmer.

I think the VAST MAJORITY of "recreational" dives made in the World are made with Aluminum 80 cubic foot-ish tanks.

I think the VAST MAJORITY of "recreational" dives made in the World are made using Vest BC's.

I think the VAST MAJORITY of "recreational" dives in the World are made wearing 5 mm or less wet suits.

I think the VAST MAJORITY of "recreational divers" first OW courses were "booked" as 3 or 4 day classes.

I agree with all of these.

haleman&#333:
I think it is highly likely the VAST MAJORITY of "recreational" dives made in the World are made using full foot fins.

Not even close. In my travels, I see full foot fins every where I go, but they are never very common.

haleman&#333:
I think it is highly likely the VAST MAJORITY of "recreational" dives made in the World are "guided dives."

In some areas almost all of them are guided. In others, very few are guided. Most dives in Bonaire are not guided. Most dives in Florida are not guided. Almost all dives in Cozumel are guided. I don't think it's as bad as you say, but it is getting worse.

haleman&#333:
I think it is highly likely the VAST MAJORITY of "recreational divers" will go "deep" within their first dozen logged dives. (>100')

Lots do, but I doubt it's the vast majority.

haleman&#333:
I think it is highly likely the VAST MAJORITY of "recreational divers" will go "under rock" within their first dozen logged dives.

My guess is the VAST MAJORITY do not.

Sas:
I think it is legitimate to complain that divers like me are not supported by the dive industry.

What do you mean by supported? Sounds like you're looking for a handout. I know that's not what you mean, so please explain.
 
Sheesh.

Obviously I got it wrong from the first post - I mean, I gathered that it was a description of how the diving world appeared to halemano. An opinion.

Not as a definitive statement of how the world really is.

We've all got our opinions. Actually, if you can read the posts where folks have posted the same, it's quite interesting to see the differing views.

Meh. It's an opinion piece! Stop beating up on the guy. ...It's starting to look like dogpiling.


All the best, James


I tend to agree. All that has been said has been opinion based on personal experiences. I haven't yet read any hard stats. One poster stated it shouldn't be hard to get data from shops on what % of what is sold. Does anyone want to do this? Yet at times some posts turn nasty.
 
halemanō;5716366:
...................I fully expect and welcome some harsh criticism of my personal views; please don't hold back, tell it like you see it. :kiss2:
I'm starting to think this offer was not genuine.
 
Walter, already answered that question, a few posts down from the post of mine you quoted ;)
 
Hi halemano,

Your view is not "warped", just biased by the sum total of your dive experiences.

My views are somewhat different, since I have different dive experiences, even though almost all of my lifetime dives have been in Hawaii. And like most humans I have my own "biases".

Anyway:

I've always used open heeled fins for scuba diving (Rockets and Jets in the '70's - 80's, Jets with spring straps now).

Full foot fins were for free diving & spearfishing only.

I never used a BC until my return to diving in 2007.... then had a poodle jacket, errr jacket BC for about 6 months (the one you see in my picture), disliked it, and went to BP/W

I only dove steel 72's until returing to diving.

No deep caverns, caves or penetrations (even still);

But I've gone "silly deep" on air, completed staged decompression dives with spare tanks on a downline suspended from an innertube float, beginning after maybe 30 dives post-basic OW cert in the 70's.

I was young, what can I say :dontknow:

My next cert was in 2008, AOW. :D


And Hawaii is the center of the dive universe. The rest of the universe just hasn't figured it out yet :mooner:

Interesting topic.

Best wishes.
 
halemanō;5719062:
This is becoming a recurring theme from you Bob; hearing (seeing) what you want to hear (see) instead of what is being said (typed).

I typed...
I think I'm reading what you're typing just fine. And if you really believe what you typed, then you should lead by example and confine your own local biases to your regional forum, rather than coming onto the Basic Scuba Discussions forum acting like some self-appointed champion of the "Silent Majority" and pretending that you speak for the masses.

halemanō;5719062:
While I am not contending that there are not enthusiasts here on SB, I think there are also many beginner members here who end up thinking the internet "advise" they read is sacrosanct, "everywhere", and also a whole lot of angry, complaining, pot stirrering members; some who seem to have vendetta's against segments of the "Dive World" that they feel did them wrong. :shocked2:

Have you pondered why the "scuba enthusiast" dive instructors of Maui, who HAVE all heard of Scubaboard, are not even interested in participating in a "conversation" about why they are not interested in SB? Could it be that "vendettas" have turned SB into a toxic cesspool from the perspective of Maui Diving, even in our local forum? :dontknow:
I cannot speak about your local forum, since I never go there ... but the rest of what you wrote is, to my perspective, rubbish. Anybody who takes anything they read on the internet as "sacrosanct" has serious issues that have nothing to do with scuba diving.

People come here for all sorts of reasons ... and people avoid here for all sorts of reasons. I know plenty of divers who won't post on ScubaBoard ... for reasons ranging from lack of interest to lack of time. I know very few who don't come here because of "vendettas". Honestly, I find this place to be one of the friendlier boards online as a whole ... and think that the variety of perspectives offered from people all over the world, who dive in all sorts of different conditions, is one of the truly valuable things this board offers.

And frankly, if all those instructors you refer to won't even engage in a conversation about why they don't want to participate here, then I think the board is probably better off without them ... and vice versa ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
Interesting ...

halemanō;5716366:
I got PADI OW certified with my Kauai (Hawaii) free dive buddies in '92. One of our other house mates was certified and he really put the class together for us, so he could have some dive buddies. The first 5 dives after certification we; went to 90' looking for old scattered wreckage, made a couple cavern dives and did a night dive. Within a couple months I was back to mostly free diving.

A couple years later, after Hurricane Iniki blew me to Maui, I part time worked at a Ka'anapali resort beach activities booth. The dive instructors were pocketing $100 cash minimum every day, just for the intro photos! They got good tips from nearly every diver and the boss paid them by the head, so 4 intro's that all wanted pictures could make one dive worth $250! If only that was my warped view of diving now. :shakehead:

I got semi serious about my hobby of underwater photography, but thought free diving was the best way to get great pictures of the white tip reef sharks in our caverns. I sold some pictures and talked a good marine photographer story, but all through this period I was really just a night bartender who saw glassy morning conditions rarely and had a total of less than 20 logged scuba dives post certification.

Ten years ago, I threw the past away and went to Florida for 10 weeks of non stop scuba instruction and diving. Came away with an inch and a half tall stack of cards and nearly as good an instructor preparation as the $20,000 price tag should indicate.

Back in Hawaii; first an Oahu dive shop with a 6-pac dive boat and 12-pac inflatable whale watch / snorkel boat, next at a South Maui beach resort for the multi resort, island wide resort dive operator from years ago (above), then a 2 location resort dive / snorkel / kayak operator with a 6-pac Molokini dive boat, followed by a short winter with the dive operator at the biggest Maui resort and finally a West Maui operator with a 13-pac dive boat that goes to Lanai and also does day and night shore dives.

All I really know is 10 years of USA's most popular warm water dive worlds, and my Key Largo dive world experience is a decade old. But I flip through most of the dive magazines, watch nearly everything dive on the TV and at the movies, and spend way too much time cyber diving. :D

I promise you; that was way more tedious and boring for me to compose than for you to read, but I apologize anyway. :shocked2:


halemanō;5719252:
I started diving at age 7 in Norther Idaho, Montana, Washington and Wyoming (Yellowstone), in 1966, taught by my dad. I made over 150 summer dives with my family and our friends until 1975. I grew up in Colorado, and every summer until I was 15 we lived somewhere other than Colorado.

I've worked all across the Western USA in the oil field, living in Montana, Nevada, Utah, Colorado, New Mexico, Texas and Oklahoma, and did two exploration jobs in Alaska; one in winter north of Fairbanks, at the Arctic Circle, and one in summer in the remote north Cook Inlet area.

I have worked on Cruise ships; in the Hawaiian Islands, including many trips to Fanning Island, "repositioned" from Puerto Rico to San Francisco, visiting ports in Curacao, Aruba, Costa Rica, Mexico, California and Canada, up and down the California coast (3 stops at Catalina Island) and then repositioned back to Hawaii. I have also made "fun" driving trips to Mexico and Canada with friends and family.

In post #3, I drove my Nissan King Cab with Harley Cafe Racer in the back, from Monterey, where I lived for 3 years, to the Key's, and back. I have lived on 3 Hawaiian Islands and visited the other 4, diving off all of them.

So which one of the above histories should we believe?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 

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