Warped Dive World Evolution - BP/W Subgroup Mindset

[MXGratefulDiver]

Thanks, who woulda guessed....

You'd be surprised ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[ScubaSteve]

It's a spoof, yanno ...

:homealone:

My world has been shattered. Next you will tell me there is no Easter Bunny or Santa Clause.

 

[fire_diver]

:homealone:

My world has been shattered. Next you will tell me there is no Easter Bunny or Santa Clause.

I thought it was Easter Santa and the Bunny Claws.

 

[CrispyCritter]

I always get a chuckle out of the "speed test" that a certain dive magazine always used to conduct with fins. Like, who purchases a fin because it's the "fastest"? Or more to the point ... why? Skittering around a reef only assures that you're going to miss an awful lot of the stuff you went down there to see ... not to mention limiting your bottom time to maybe half what it would've been if you'd just slow down and look around a bit. So why would someone possibly want the "fastest" fin?

Interesting question. To me those test are an indicator of how efficiently a fin was able to translate work into propulsion. As a new diver, one of my goals is to minimize the amount of work I am doing in the water, and it seems that more efficient fins would serve that purpose. In other words, fins that were "faster" would translate to less kicking and work in the water.

Is there any validity to this idea?

 

[*dave*]

Efficiency at translating effort to speed is a good thing, but many of the most efficient fins achieve this efficiency at the expense of functionality.

 

[danvolker]

Interesting question. To me those test are an indicator of how efficiently a fin was able to translate work into propulsion. As a new diver, one of my goals is to minimize the amount of work I am doing in the water, and it seems that more efficient fins would serve that purpose. In other words, fins that were "faster" would translate to less kicking and work in the water.

Is there any validity to this idea?

Absolutely. My preference is the DiveR fins DiveR Fins ...these have either huge speed if needed, or can allow much better sac rates than your buddies would get at "normal" scuba swimming speeds ...as to control, I can do awesome helicopter turns with them, and very good reverse kick. Walking on the dive boat is harder at first, but a skill I found easy to develop. More importantly, it would be FOOLISH to buy fins just because they were easy to walk in....you buy them for swimming with....

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Interesting question. To me those test are an indicator of how efficiently a fin was able to translate work into propulsion. As a new diver, one of my goals is to minimize the amount of work I am doing in the water, and it seems that more efficient fins would serve that purpose. In other words, fins that were "faster" would translate to less kicking and work in the water.

Is there any validity to this idea?

For the new diver ... not really. Working on proper finning technique will produce far better results. Often times, choosing a fin because it allows you to work less hard only inhibits the development of good technique ... because it reduces the feedback mechanism that lets you know when you're doing it properly.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

As a new diver, one of my goals is to minimize the amount of work I am doing in the water, and it seems that more efficient fins would serve that purpose. In other words, fins that were "faster" would translate to less kicking and work in the water.

Is there any validity to this idea?

For the new diver ... not really. Working on proper finning technique will produce far better results. Often times, choosing a fin because it allows you to work less hard only inhibits the development of good technique ... because it reduces the feedback mechanism that lets you know when you're doing it properly.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

This is an interesting line of reasoning; one that I have been pondering harder on since Peter Guy posted this thread in the I2I forum (Instructor to Instructor).

The Effect of Gear on OW Training

"Often times, choosing a ______ because it allows you to work less hard only inhibits the development of good technique"

One <snip> of Peter's OP for that "effect of gear" thread is...

"He later tried a BP/W combo and said he felt much more stable -- the same response as another student."

Does the OW student learn ALL the things they need to learn in the OW course if they use gear that is too easy to use?

Aren't we supposed to be learning how to be in control of ourselves underwater in the OW course? In the OW realm, many of the first BP/W divers were the videographers; they liked how easy it was to stay horizontal, resulting in better videos.

Just looking at the SeaQuest ADV BCD's, the last vestiges of which have now been assimilated into the Aqua Lung Wave BCD; when you swim with eyes slightly lower than fins and back slightly arched, the majority of the air (lift point) in the BC is directly over the weight belt (ballast). Still swimming, as you rotate the body's left side higher than right side, to vent from the deflator, the air fills the left vest pocket area more, moving the lift point forward of the ballast, pivoting the body more towards eyes higher than fins, allowing the air to move to the deflator.

Learning to control, or manipulate, the air bubble is high on my list of "to do's" when getting the student to understand buoyancy control. If eyes are significantly lower than fins, the right hand kidney dump is fastest for dumping, because the bubble is already there. If more upright in the water, which is a very comfortable position for a terrestrial biped, leaning slightly left and pulling the right shoulder dump is perhaps fastest. If the beginning diver is not significantly over-weighted, which is more dangerous in an emergency; venting too much or venting too little?

Kind of seems like a new Vest BC diver who is in control of their body position underwater might be ahead of the curve compared to the new BP/W diver who has relinquished some body position control to the easier to be horizontally stable in BP/W.

In the vast majority of 3-D OW marine environments, where horizontal body position is not mandated by silting concerns, why would the use of something that prefers to be horizontal be considered an advantage?

Obviously, there are different student body shapes, densities, and athletic abilities, as well as different local conditions and different instructors teaching abilities/philosophies (just to name a few). There are also different probable futures for each new diver. One kid's parents may be cave divers while another kid's grand parents might own a time share on Kauai; the gear available in those respective garages is likely to be worlds apart.

Have you noticed how there are less and less young people in the USA that can drive a manual transmission? Is it possible that there are still more standard transmissions in the vast majority of the World than automatics? Imagine that you were visiting in Japan when the sirens gave you a 6 minute warning and the only vehicle at your disposal has a stick? :shocked2:

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

In the vast majority of 3-D OW marine environments, where horizontal body position is not mandated by silting concerns, why would the use of something that prefers to be horizontal be considered an advantage?

Because whether it's silty or not, getting out of horizontal trim while trying to swim means you have to push more water out of the way to move forward. Water's really heavy stuff, and moving more of it means working harder ... and the harder you work, the harder you breathe ... and the harder you breathe the faster your tank gets empty.

Pretty elementary stuff there ... want to stay down longer? Simple, don't work so hard. Why push any more water than you have to?

But that's not really a function of your BCD choice ... it's a technique issue. Maintaining good trim really isn't a valid reason to choose one BCD style over another.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Teamcasa]

<snip>..in the vast majority of 3-D OW marine environments, where horizontal body position is not mandated by silting concerns, why would the use of something that prefers to be horizontal be considered an advantage?

I shoot a ton of video and an occasional photo when diving, I routinely "break trim" to get the shot but if I'm just trying to move from one place to another or hover over a spot, horizontal is where it's at.