Warped Dive World Evolution - BP/W Subgroup Mindset

[fnfalman]

As both Halemano & you, seem desperate to prove your point of views, I think I'll take everything out of both of you with a grain or three.

I think I'll continue to rely on the correct use of the scientific method over anecdotal evidence, an oxymoron, every time. Wake me up when someone publishes a peer reviewed article that proves there's any real, statistically significant difference.

I second that.

"Decades of experiences" don't mean squat to me. You can be doing things wrong all those times, or be so parochial that you haven't broadened your horizon.

If anybody were to want to convince me that jacket BC is more streamlined than BPW or vice versa...show me a true research project with a peer reviewed result.

Until then it's strictly blowhard rhetorics from both proponents.

I'm an engineer by training and profession. Don't tell me. Show me.

 

[danvolker]

As both Halemano & you, seem desperate to prove your point of views, I think I'll take everything out of both of you with a grain or three.

I think I'll continue to rely on the correct use of the scientific method over anecdotal evidence, an oxymoron, every time. Wake me up when someone publishes a peer reviewed article that proves there's any real, statistically significant difference.

Again, what has the practice of "peer review" done to keep the pharmaceutical industry "clean". Few industries involve more "science", and few if any, exist with a higher level of mis-truth, masquerading as science and research.

Wait for a "study" on BC's regarding efficiency or drag, and it WILL be funded by manufacturing interests ( or medias that manufacturers ADVERTISE in) with extreme bias....the results they "prove" with their statistically significant findings, will be worth every penny they paid for them....at least from the perspective of an Advertising Agency.

 

[fire_diver]

How about everybody just dives what they like to dive in and quit telling everyone else thier gear sucks.

Use multiple styles of gear and pick what works best. I have used many vest BCs and BP/W. For me the BP/W works best for many reasons. If you don't like that don't dive it.
Just quit all the useless drama and bitching like little junior high kids.

 

[danvolker]

How about everybody just dives what they like to dive in and quit telling everyone else thier gear sucks.

Use multiple styles of gear and pick what works best. I have used many vest BCs and BP/W. For me the BP/W works best for many reasons. If you don't like that don't dive it.
Just quit all the useless drama and bitching like little junior high kids.

Maybe you did not read the original post in this thread...where Halemano began this tirade. In any event, the "useless drama" and "bitching" are what half the people on SB are here to enjoy

 

[fire_diver]

Maybe you did not read the original post in this thread...where Halemano began this tirade. In any event, the "useless drama" and "bitching" are what half the people on SB are here to enjoy

Yeah, I did read it. But after reading so much of his crap I put him on "block". Life is better without reading his trollish posts.

 

[cool_hardware52]

If anybody were to want to convince me that jacket BC is more streamlined than BPW or vice versa...show me a true research project with a peer reviewed result.

I too prefer data from a reproducible experiment. One where the method is fully described.

These have significant value for those qualified to understand and critique the method.

The problem is relatively few of the intended audience (consumers) are sufficiently qualified. The predictable result is the method is attacked by those on the loosing side and the just plain stubbornly ignorant with such fervor that the unqualified are often left more confused.

One needs only to look at the Tahoe Bench Mark Scooter Tests to see exactly this result.

Tobin

 

[Kern]

Again, what has the practice of "peer review" done to keep the pharmaceutical industry "clean". Few industries involve more "science", and few if any, exist with a higher level of mis-truth, masquerading as science and research.

Wait for a "study" on BC's regarding efficiency or drag, and it WILL be funded by manufacturing interests ( or medias that manufacturers ADVERTISE in) with extreme bias....the results they "prove" with their statistically significant findings, will be worth every penny they paid for them....at least from the perspective of an Advertising Agency.

The scientific method requires the experimental methodology to be clearly set out such that it is reproducible by other experimenters. For proprietary reasons most pharmaceutical companies keep their results secret, they don't undergo peer review. There's a big difference between good science & the seedy busyness practices of many large corporations. Nothing humans do is perfect, greed & corruption are rampant, but in the long run, the scientific method has proven itself time & time again. About the only thing that anecdotal evidence has proven, is that individual human perceptions are filtered through a miasma of emotional needs & bias.

I do agree that many divers are ready to believe any pseudo scientific nonsense the marketing divisions of the manufacturers care to dish out. There is a big difference however between this nonsense, the correct use of the scientific method, & the proper statistical analyses of quantitative data. I doubt very much that if the industry funded crap studies, that they would pass the requirements of peer review for any worthwhile publication.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

About the only thing that anecdotal evidence has proven, is that individual human perceptions are filtered through a miasma of emotional needs & bias.

With respect to dive gear, what else matters except emotional needs & bias?

There are two primary reasons why people purchase diving equipment ... initially it's because someone else told them it was what they wanted, and when that gets replaced it's usually with something else they tried and decided they liked better.

Rarely does someone purchase diving equipment based on some scientific comparison of performance ... mostly it's because it (a) has the features they wanted, or (b) they got a good deal on the purchase price.

Ultimately, the best equipment for any given diver has to meet three criteria ...

- It needs to be appropriate to the type of diving you do (for recreational diving, this can be pretty much any choice of equipment)

- It needs to fit you properly (i.e. BCDs and exposure equipment)

- It needs to fit your budget

Beyond that, it's all about emotional needs and bias ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[gypsyjim]

And WHATEVER flavor of KoolAde you prefer at this point in you dive career.

 

[Jax]

. . . How would one test / measure the drag of a JBC vs a BP/W?

Perhaps a timed scooter pull over a given distance, same person wearing first a JBC and then a BP/W?

Would they have to have the same lift?

Would the two configurations need to be weighed, and then weighted to make them equal?

Just curious on the science . . . if it could be called such.