Warped Dive World Evolution - BP/W Subgroup Mindset

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

Status
Not open for further replies.
Halemano will still not accept it.

I don't care what Halemano thinks, however I do thank him for starting this thread which lead me to decide to do this test.

I plan to write a paper on it and possibly dump the whole industry on it's head.
The results may surprise everyone including me.

I would like to have the results published in all venues not just scubaboard and/or other internet forums.
 
I'm going to develop a drag-o-meter.

You may want to test a variety of weightings.

Since many people have a tendancy to overweight themselves and thus have significantly more air than is necessary. A taco'd (i.e. wrapped around the tank) or a deflated BCD are going to have different drag characteristics and distributions as their full counterparts.

Neglecting the hands and legs, I imagine you'll see something like this, but this is just my non-scientific-albeit-formally-educated-in-fluid-mechanics guesstimate.

90382d1298909278-warped-dive-world-evolution-bp-w-subgroup-mindset-untitled1.jpg

90383d1298909282-warped-dive-world-evolution-bp-w-subgroup-mindset-untitled2.jpg
 

Attachments

  • untitled1.JPG
    untitled1.JPG
    39.8 KB · Views: 134
  • untitled2.JPG
    untitled2.JPG
    26 KB · Views: 128
I don't care what Halemano thinks, however I do thank him for starting this thread which lead me to decide to do this test.

I plan to write a paper on it and possibly dump the whole industry on it's head.
The results may surprise everyone including me.

I would like to have the results published in all venues not just scubaboard and/or other internet forums.

Good Luck with your endeavor.

Be prepared for a huge %&%*$* storm regardless of the results.

Just look at the Tahoe Bench Mark, which IMO was a *VERY* well designed and controlled experiment.

The choice of altering their position or killing the messenger isn't a hard one for too many.

Tobin
 
The choice of altering their position or killing the messenger isn't a hard one for too many.

Tobin

Sometimes killing the messenger is warranted ... depending on how the message was delivered ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
I think it would be interesting to gather a few of the people in this thread together with a variety of BP/W's and jacket BCD's in a nice tropical resort with excellent diving. The people diving would use different gear each time and just try to enjoy the dives. In the evenings sitting down to eat delicious food, only pleasant dive conversations about everything except BP/W/jacket BCD's would be permitted. Several divers with video recorders would be present on all dives. On the final dive day, a special series of events would be planned involving sudden opportunities to race for 100oz gold bars. Each diver will be allowed to select the gear they choose on the last day.

On arriving home start a new thread entitled "What trim was like for me wearing xyz BP/W or jacket BCD".
 
<snip>Here is me in a jacket BC, look I am walking around on my knees.<snip>
And finally it makes me look cool, like a ninja
BP/W is better than vest BC.

Did switching gear suddenly make you a better diver or was there some training involved? If you had to dive in your original gear would you suddenly not be able to maintain your trim?
- Let me answer for you. No. You have become a better diver because you decided to become one.
Gear selection is no replacement for proper training.
To be clear, I use a Apeks WTX Harness/with a plate and wing because it works well for me. Could I use a jacket BC and still gain control of my trim, yes.

BTW, This is not Marvel Comics. You can't just duck into a submerged cave, swap your jacket BC with a BP/W and come flying out all super ninja diver.:wink:
 
A BC, be it jacket or BPW, is going to add even more drag than just a backplate & tank(s). Then add a baggy drysuit on top of the whole shebang.

I use a BPW because of previously posted properties, but drag consideration ain't one of them.
I have to agree. The moment you get in the water with a dry suit, it is like you have a huge braking system now restricting your forward speed. Even the worst BC I have ever tried, is not even close to being as bad as a drysuit.

However, when the water is cold, we have to go with the dry suit.

The "bellying to the bottom" to move against big currents, is the primary streamlining issue for the vest versus bp/wing.....the bp/wing not having anywhere near as much frontal/ventral area to act as snagging points. Same problem when you try to fit into a tight passage in cave or shipwreck....the bp/wing lets you through without snagging, the vest is a cr%pshoot.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
haleman&#333;;5760653:
I have never typed or said that divers should not consider BP/W. I have been very consistent in only typing or saying that if a goodly amount of divers (IE. Vast Majority) are evidently diving just fine in Vest BC's, in similar conditions to the person asking for advise and opinions, it seems they should consider Vest BC's. Especially if they were trained in Vest and might also end up renting instead of packing their own gear in the seemingly only rising in cost air travel future.

I think that the (generally correct) presumption on the part of the "BP/W contingent" - which I am certainly part of - is that pretty much EVERY diver considers jacket/vest or "conventional" rear-inflation BCDs. How could they not? I live near two shops which maintain a pretty reasonable stock of BP/Ws and associated gear (sufficient for me to generally walk in and out with whatever I need on any given day). One of them is specifically known as a shop that caters to the technical crowd. Even in those shops, >80% of the BCs on offer are so-called "traditional" BCs. Basic OW classes are nearly exclusively taught in "traditional" BCs. Obviously you and I agree that when new divers think "BC" they're thinking of a jacket/vest.

So, just like what happens in ANY activity when somebody roots for the underdog, people tend to get passionate. I would argue that what you call "selling", "assimilation", "converting", etc. is really just people wanting to make sure that something which not a lot of people (globally, not on scubaboard) know about gets considered. Amplify again owing to the fact that the vast majority of its proponents have found through extensive shared experience that there are many benefits to the BP/W not provided to the same degree by jacket/vest (mostly by having dove - often extensively - jackets/vests prior to finding out about BP/W).

Is all of that anecdotal evidence? Sure, but there are many of us who switch back and forth between BP/W and jackets (for instructional work when required) on a regular basis. I've done the same dives on both, many times. For me, the reality is that all other things being equal, my comfort in the water is significantly higher in the BP/W, largely owing to a significantly more solid platform for my tank and a better distribution of weight for trim purposes.

So really, who care about the coefficient of drag? Most people talking about streamlining aren't talking about that anyway. What matters are the reasons that people get passionate about it. If you match their passion with defensiveness at every turn, we all lose. Why not focus instead on the positives of jacket/vest BCs as you perceive them, rather than spending so much effort trying to downplay the perceived positives of something else? :idk:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/

Back
Top Bottom