Valve/manifold procedures "in the real world"

[AndyNZ]

A valve drill will NEVER identify the problem. It is a DRILL. Its sole purpose is to get you manipulating your valves and understanding which regulator and inflator are attached to which post. That's why it is in Fundies; it is a fundamental skill for later classes.

Thankyou. I was fairly certain of this, but was concerned that I'd missed or forgotten something in discussions during Fundies.... given the vehemence of the person I've since spoken to, who as it is becoming clear doesn't know their ar$e from their elbow.

As I was taught...if you wind up with the right shut down and isolated...you can continue if necessary on your left as it still has the SPG and you know how much gas you saved. If you wind up with the left shut down and isolated...you should be on a teammate's long hose as you don't know how much gas you have.

This makes sense, and does provide reasonably compelling justification for the team approach.... being alone, left post shut down with a deco obligation to complete would scare me *****less. :blinking:

 

[rjack321]

Interesting. I was not taught this. I WAS taught that the diver with the left post closed should be sandwiched between the other two, as he is the most likely to go out of gas. But putting that diver on a teammate's long hose immediately is essentially operating as though the "injured" diver has lost ALL of his gas, which sort of defeats the purpose of closing valves and isolating. After all, if it is an isolated left post failure, he may well have the majority of his gas left, and ignoring that as a resource doesn't seem like a good plan to me.

Isolated means at most he/she has 1/2 left. Probably less depending on how long it took to isolate. 1/2 of rock bottom means he could get to the first gas switch but probably not much further. 1/2 of 2/3rds remaining means just enough to exit the cave (we'll assume you dove 1/3rds on a full cave dive).

On a deep wreck I'd go to my buddy's long hose and complete our deep stops on his gas. Then I am fairly sure I will have primary bouyancy control and something to switch onto between 50% and O2. NIce to have these things for the bulk of the deco.

Far back in a cave I would share gas in some open areas where we could swim fast side-by-side/together. Then use my own limited resources in restrictions while in touch contact with my buddy(s). Save my gas for places where long hose sharing is otherwise quite slow.

The key is to use of the remaining gas when/where it makes getting "out" easier. You will probably be OOA eventually and doing some selective sharing can prevent or at least extend your resources. Its not ignoring the resource, just using it strategically.

 

[b1gcountry]

Okay, I now see that preserving tank gas that way could allow a primary reg switch from a pony or buddy, making the back gas useable again; I wasn't thinking that far ahead - thanks

Wow, how did you teach your Pony to dive? That is so cool!

 

[AndyNZ]

If you haven't heard of the "9 failures" -- it is a way of grouping the possible failures into manageable sub-sets.

Right Post - Fixable
Right Post - Nonfixable
Right Manifold

Left Post - Fixable
Left Post - Nonfixable
Left Manifold

Left - Sounds Like Right
Right - Sounds Like Left
*** (Unknown)

Just reviving this thread with another question..... in terms of these 9 failures, exactly what is meant by "fixable"? Is it literal, or is it more that a problem that is "resolvable" in the short term, but still essentially is an event that ends the dive?

So, for example, a tank neck o-ring failure would be non-fixable, where are as a reg free flow is fixable?

 

[MonkSeal]

Just reviving this thread with another question..... in terms of these 9 failures, exactly what is meant by "fixable"? Is it literal, or is it more that a problem that is "resolvable" in the short term, but still essentially is an event that ends the dive?

So, for example, a tank neck o-ring failure would be non-fixable, where are as a reg free flow is fixable?

"Fixable" is something that you and/or your team member(s) can resolve and ensure your current situation does not require you to terminate the dive i.e. your gear is in the same condition as it was before the problem. In your example, if free flow can be stopped and you get regulator working correctly, it's fixable. If you end-up with closed valve to stop free-flow, it's non-fixable.

 

[AndyNZ]

"Fixable" is something that you and/or your team member(s) can resolve and ensure your current situation does not require you to terminate the dive i.e. your gear is in the same condition as it was before the problem. In your example, if free flow can be stopped and you get regulator working correctly, it's fixable. If you end-up with closed valve to stop free-flow, it's non-fixable.

Thanks for that. So it is literal.

Would be interested in hearing what problems people have had in actual diving that fall into this fixable category.

 

[MonkSeal]

Would be interested in hearing what problems people have had in actual diving that fall into this fixable category.

1. Frozen reg
2. Knocked and dislodged 1st stage

 

[rjack321]

No sense retyping it.
The Deco Stop

 

[lamont]

"Fixable" is something that you and/or your team member(s) can resolve and ensure your current situation does not require you to terminate the dive i.e. your gear is in the same condition as it was before the problem. In your example, if free flow can be stopped and you get regulator working correctly, it's fixable. If you end-up with closed valve to stop free-flow, it's non-fixable.

I had a reg once that had repeated fixable free-flows, which weren't solvable by detuning the reg in the water, so I still ended the dive even though I never wound up with a closed valve.

 

[TSandM]

Well, whether to continue the dive after fixing a "fixable" failure is always going to be a judgment call. Depending on the other factors involved, it may well be the best choice to go home and try again another day.