Valve/manifold procedures "in the real world"

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It is not supposed to happen. But when you're not diving just on the internet, it can happen.

If you're trying to imply that I'm a cyber-diver...I have more decompression dives logged than post on SB...as well as more cave dives for that matter.

Even in DIR diving and the team environment...you should be able to deal with a major problem by yourself. Or did we all forget what we learned in Rescue class (if we took it) -- self rescue is the most important kind of rescue to know.

I agree.

Separated once.

I SINCERELY apologize for misunderstanding your earlier post.

And I'm not trying to imply that team separation can't happen, because it absolutely can. Although, ideally it shouldn't and it has yet to happen to us on a serious dive.
 
isn't there supposed to be a GUE sidemount protocol coming out soon? that way we can just take a look at any valve failures. :wink:
 
Crap happens.

I have an account by George Irvine somewhere regarding the day Parker died in the collapse/silt out. As I recall the account, the buddy team separated - one diver made it out, Parker did not.

Things that ideally should not happen occasionally do...

While valve drills were covered in my fundies, the nine failures were not. My fundies instructor noted simply that your buddy assists your dealing with valve issues....

(My instructor, however, being a pragmatist, also commented that in a craptacular situation a signal mirror tucked in the back of your wetnotes would allow you to see where the bubbles were coming from, (as well as other difficult-to-diagnose issues behind you,) and was a reasonably efficient means of resolving pesky questions involving annoying bubble sources...) FWIW.
 
Crap happens.

I have an account by George Irvine somewhere regarding the day Parker died in the collapse/silt out. As I recall the account, the buddy team separated - one diver made it out, Parker did not.

Things that ideally should not happen occasionally do...

While valve drills were covered in my fundies, the nine failures were not. My fundies instructor noted simply that your buddy assists your dealing with valve issues....

(My instructor, however, being a pragmatist, also commented that in a craptacular situation a signal mirror tucked in the back of your wetnotes would allow you to see where the bubbles were coming from, (as well as other difficult-to-diagnose issues behind you,) and was a reasonably efficient means of resolving pesky questions involving annoying bubble sources...) FWIW.

"craptacular"...........that has gotta be my 2008 word of the year..!:D
 
If you're trying to imply that I'm a cyber-diver...I have more decompression dives logged than post on SB...as well as more cave dives for that matter.

Jeez! you really need to start posting more often:wink:
 
But, within these groupings, there are still standardized procedures for valve shut-downs that cover the various failure possibilities.

Example:

Start with bubbles that sound like they're from your right post.
Signal team (if you're separated...well...uh oh)
Shut down right post; breathe it down.
Switch to backup reg.
Have team check it out (if you're separated...)
Are there still bubbles?
Shut down isolator.
Are there still bubbles?


This is really useful, thankyou.... as is the nine failures list.

It actually resolves one of my issues, which is questioning whether a valve drill will always identify a problem. It's the re-opening of the manifold that I'd not be sure about, whereas reading between the lines here it seems like the "standard procedures" are subsets of the valve drill chosen on particular basis, which is great.

So, if I were seperated and had an unknown failure I would start with the right post, isolate it and breathe it down before swapping to backup reg.

If the bubbles continue, I'd close the manifold. If the bubbles continue, I'd reopen right post, test and breathe from it whilst shutting down the left post - if this still hasn't fixed it, I'd check the SPG and see whether the pressure was dropping. If it is, I know that I've got a left post issue.

If the SPG is static, left post should be good - but with the isolator closed and breathing off the right post, I'm at risk off being OOG whilst the left post is shut down, so that needs to be reopened, but I'd still leave the isolator closed (if shutting down the post hasn't fixed it, it must be a manifold, burst disk or similar?). I'd probably breathe off the right post as long as possible whilst still monitoring the SPG for changes. As long as it's not dropping, I'd leave it and only swap to the backup reg when required.


Very much open to critique on this, fire your thoughts away!



isn't there supposed to be a GUE sidemount protocol coming out soon? that way we can just take a look at any valve failures. :wink:

And I thought I was asking for a DIR answer to a non-DIR problem.... and here's a non-DIR solution! :wink:

Totally off topic, and meant to be non-contentious... but I do actually do some solo dives in a sidemount configuration for this reason. If there was a DIR sidemount configuration on the way, that would certainly be an interesting discussion to have!
 
I raised similar issues in another thread and got some good advice but had further questions; however since I'd already dragged that thread off topic, I didn't think it was the right place to continue the discussion - this one seems more apt

1. I still don't get why you don't isolate first (before post shut down). A catasprophic LP failure can drain a tank pretty quick. Why isn't gas loss prevention the first order?

2. Advice in this thread/GUE is to shut right post first, breath it down and switch regs. If your failure is actually on the less common left post, and is serious (ie major failure), couldn't that lead to no air on your secondary?

What am I missing?

TIA
 
I raised similar issues in another thread and got some good advice but had further questions; however since I'd already dragged that thread off topic, I didn't think it was the right place to continue the discussion - this one seems more apt

1. I still don't get why you don't isolate first (before post shut down). A catasprophic LP failure can drain a tank pretty quick. Why isn't gas loss prevention the first order?

Because it tells you nothing about the problem. Let's assume that the issue isn't a neck o-ring or a burst disk, but is actually a 1st stage free flow (Which is a much more common problem), it's going to be very obvious what the issue is, so just shut down that side.

2. Advice in this thread/GUE is to shut right post first, breath it down and switch regs. If your failure is actually on the less common left post, and is serious (ie major failure), couldn't that lead to no air on your secondary?

If it is a major issue on the left side, it's going to be fairly obvious on the left side. So shut down the left side.

All of the "failures" I've ever had have been easily identified by me. Even little leaks from din fittings or o-rings are obvious enough to pick a side.

HTH

John
 
2. Advice in this thread/GUE is to shut right post first, breath it down and switch regs. If your failure is actually on the less common left post, and is serious (ie major failure), couldn't that lead to no air on your secondary?
AFAIR the advice was "try to locate where bubbles are coming from (left side or right side) and shutdown that post, proceede with diagnose, evaluate if bubbles are still present, proceede with further actions if required".
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/teric/
http://cavediveflorida.com/Rum_House.htm

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